here's a good one...output on coils, what are wires made of?

[navyblue2000]

after some good discussion with tiago tonight, this kinda came up. the more power from the coils the better. and i know aftermarket coils have more juice, but how much? we also talked about the 14mm fiberoptics that were way too expensive. does anyone know what the wires are made from? and how could we get coils that put out more juice?
this might qualify as gen. tech material, but i don't ever really expect anything too in-depth over there, i think this could spark some good discussion (no pun intended: spark)

[ItalianStallion1]

What's with the fiber optic wires? I've never heard of them. Where do you get them? How much are they? 14mm is huge for a wire.

[Guardsman]

For my 95, the stock coils are listed as 25KV, Accel lists their coils at 45KV.
As to fiber optic lines, those would most likely be for stereo and/or PCM data transmission. Fiber optics, by their design, are not meant, and can't, carry power. Fiber optics work by converting an analog signal (music) into a digital signal (computer), transmitting it using light, and converting the digital signal back into an analog signal.
Right now, fiber optics are best suited to where there is a requirement, or anticipated requirement, to transmit large amounts of data, and/or transmit data over long distances. The power requirements to send data long distances via fiber optics is a fraction of that required for analog (wire/wireless) transmission. Also, due to the extremely high frequency of the transmission medium (digital light signals) much more information can be sent in a given amount of space.
Fiber optics would work great for a stereo, but you have to take the cost and complexity, compared to the improvement, into consideration.
Fiberoptic line is expensive, compared to regular wire, unless you can buy it in bulk, meaning by the hundreds or thousands of feet.
To use fiberoptic lines, you have to have an analog to digital/digital to analog converter at both ends, to convert the signal. Also, fiberoptics can be very rugged, but to a point. They can only be bent so far, after that, they will break at some point in the line, which can cause major problems. They also have to be more heavily protected at mounting and suspension points, because they are more susceptible to damage from vibration than metal wire is.
For use in a car, until major changes in the industry allow for less expensive lines and converters, you're better off sticking to metal wire. Hope that helps.

[Ironman24]

I did some coil pack testing a few weeks ago when I was looking for problems from the nitrous backfire. I tested the resistance on the stock coil packs with an Ohm meter, they were either 4 or .4 I can't remember the correct measurement. Then I tested the accel coil packs and they were all higher reading .7 or 7.

I personally don't like the accel coil packs mainly because they fried 2 MSD units on my car. Put the stock coils back on and the MSD has been fine since. They worked fine on the car with no MSD and I'm sure they were producing a hotter spark but I won't ever run the accel packs with the MSD again.

[navyblue2000]

Ironman, is the MSD worth it in this case, if it seems to get fried everytime something strong goes into it?

[Brian Dieckman]

Spark plug wires are nylon wound carbon fibers.

Optical "wire" is made of glass (or plastic), an insulator so it cannot conduct electricity.

What's funny is that most tractor wires are still sometype of metal (copper or braided steel) and if you hook up a radio, you can hear every cylinder fire through the speaker. (the charge, not the combustion, though that would be cool)

Guardsman: BMW, Rolls Royce, Porche and about half a dozen other european car manufacturers have been using fiberoptic cable in their autos for about 5 years now. The entire car signaling system can be run from there, with ease. Just think, +12V, -12V and signal to EVERYTHING and you can control each component INDIVIDUALY! You're right in saying it's expensive, though... I accidentaly cut through the bus wire in the door of a Rolls Royce about a year ago: you'll never guess... here it comes... are you ready? $340 for a 6 foot piece of fiberoptic cable with three terminators on it. Yeah, never working on one of those again. Never. Ever.

-Brian

[94CaliCamaro]

I got the same question, is it basically one or the other. Either choose the MSD or choose the better coils?

Davy Dave

[Ironman24]

Well I'm the only one that I know of that fried an MSD unit. The first one I fried was Bill Spano's old one, I ran it for about 7 months and it got toasted 1 month after I put the accel coils on. The 2nd MSD unit I got lasted about 1 week. Maybe something is wrong with my car or wiring harness but I know Bill did an excellent job wiring up the CIU's. The accel coils and MSD work great by themselves for me, just not together. IMHO, get the accel coils for like 35 bucks times 3 and save yourself $200. Then put that $200 towards a MAFT+. I was using the MSD to retard timing for nitrous but the MAFT+ actually does a better job. MSD only retards above 4K and I usually pick up knock around 3K. You can pull timing at the base and WOT with the MAFT+. I know Magnus also agrees that the stock ignition system is very capable/sufficient and he will also say you don't need an MSD unit.

[Guardsman]

Brian, thanks for the info on the Euro cars using the fiber optics, I didn't know that. No wonder the damned cars are so expensive. I know what you mean about how great using them is, they're awesome. No interference problems from the engine or other outside sources, no fire concerns due to overheating of the conductors, no ground to worry about (although you'll still lose the one component, you won't lose the whole circuit or system). $340, though, sounds like a lot for 6 feet (if the cable was bought in bulk, that is), but that's also including building it, and the profit markups.
Building the cables is actually pretty easy, once you get the hang of it. The single most difficult part is making sure to get a relatively celan break when cutting the cable. Other than that, it's simple, using epoxy to hold the connectors on, and polishing the ends.
Ironman, the Accels might be drawing too much current, which could be what is frying the MSDs. That would be strange, though, because the MSDs would, I thought, be built pretty strong.

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Guardsman:
Brian, thanks for the info on the Euro cars using the fiber optics, I didn't know that. No wonder the damned cars are so expensive. I know what you mean about how great using them is, they're awesome. No interference problems from the engine or other outside sources, no fire concerns due to overheating of the conductors, no ground to worry about (although you'll still lose the one component, you won't lose the whole circuit or system). $340, though, sounds like a lot for 6 feet (if the cable was bought in bulk, that is), but that's also including building it, and the profit markups.
Building the cables is actually pretty easy, once you get the hang of it. The single most difficult part is making sure to get a relatively celan break when cutting the cable. Other than that, it's simple, using epoxy to hold the connectors on, and polishing the ends.
Ironman, the Accels might be drawing too much current, which could be what is frying the MSDs. That would be strange, though, because the MSDs would, I thought, be built pretty strong.<hr></blockquote>

I highly doubt it's so expensive. I have a huge roll of it. Probably a good mile in lab. I was practicing cutting it one day and I just tossed it away afterwards.

[Brian Dieckman]

uh, this was a Factory direct part, with three terminators, (not TOS link or even fiberCIN, I've never seen the connector since) I'm not sure why it was so expensive, I assume it's because it came straight from RR and the L and R sides are different. (also, the part number is listed for only that car and it's 4-door cousin)

Suffice it to say the cable is inexpensive, but I wouldn't trust even myself to terminate it correctly! (I'll stick to good ol' cat5E any day!)

GO GIGABIT E!

(Computer geeks rock)

-Brian

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Brian Dieckman:
uh, this was a Factory direct part, with three terminators, (not TOS link or even fiberCIN, I've never seen the connector since) I'm not sure why it was so expensive, I assume it's because it came straight from RR and the L and R sides are different. (also, the part number is listed for only that car and it's 4-door cousin)

Suffice it to say the cable is inexpensive, but I wouldn't trust even myself to terminate it correctly! (I'll stick to good ol' cat5E any day!)

GO GIGABIT E!

(Computer geeks rock)

-Brian<hr></blockquote>

Fiber needs to be cut on a perfect 90 deg angle and it must be a perfect clean cut. I used $3000 cutters to accomplish that.

[Brian Dieckman]

Whew! No wonder noone makes their own. Like I said, I'll stick to good ol' copper!

(I'm not aware of any $3,000 soldering irons!)

-Brian

[Dominic]

I know/understand that most stock spark plug wires are made of carbon, which is around 40Ohms per foot.

In comparrison, bare copper wire is more like 0.2Ohms per foot at lowgrade!

(lower resistance wire = better conductor = less energy loss)

[Tiago]

ok, the wires me and drew are talking about aren't fiber optic. They are called nology wires(checkout www.nology.com)

they are suppost to give a 5% hp increase :eek:

they supposidly have hte lowest resistance and they have a capacitor on the wire that discharges the power when the time is right. according to them a engine at 7500 rpm spins 135* during the firing of one cyl, but with their wires, only 1*.
this more accurate timing and cleaner burn, etc.. etc... is what gives the power they claim.
bad part: $300 for a set
kelly drown (www.projecttransam.com owner) whos a friend of mine already tried them but didn't gain a damn thing lol...

so I will save my $300 [img]smile.gif[/img]