piston rings

[CDNFB]

Re: piston rings

Well, **** happens some times.

Now this is only my opinon mind you, but if you want that little V6 to be able to do 13s or better with a measure of reliability your going to have to completely tear down the block and start from square one. Balance, blueprinting, line bore, decking, ............and the list can go on and on and on...

I have some of my own ideas of how I would build my engine, but I haven't rebuilt my 3800 yet so I'm not the one to tell you what it is exactly that works best, or what you're going to need or require in the way of parts. But you gotta know there are alot of guys here who know an awful lot and are willing to help when you ask.

I'll certainly be watching with great interest.

[slow6]

Re: piston rings

stupid question, but can you tell me why you'd need to get the cylinders honed? because of scorching? because of the indention at the top of the cylinder that the piston makes? thanks

could you explain a little on those jobs:
blueprinting: think i know already
balancing: balancing what? the crank?
line boring: eh?
decking: decking what?

"there are alot of guys here who know an awful lot" heh I hope so!

[loser]

Re: piston rings

stupid question, but can you tell me why you'd need to get the cylinders honed? because of scorching? because of the indention at the top of the cylinder that the piston makes? thanks

could you explain a little on those jobs:
blueprinting: think i know already
balancing: balancing what? the crank?
line boring: eh?
decking: decking what?

"there are alot of guys here who know an awful lot" heh I hope so!

balancing is what you think it is, line boreing i dont really know either? decking is the top of the block if im not mistaken, where the head bolts on. as for the honeing, how many miles are on it? do you have your sleeves out of the block? well they dont have to be out really, as long as the pistons are out, take a look at the sleeves. there should be "cross-hatching" on them. its hard to discribe( kinda like a really big X), but cross hatching kinda explains itself. when you hone a sleeve you go down, that leaves slight "hatches" if you will, then back up, which cross over the previous " hatches". im not good at explaining stuff and im only 15, so keep that in mind.

[slow6]

Re: piston rings

heh, I fill like a loser myself for not have knowing all this when i was 15.

Decking = Resurfacing the block where it meets the head?
I know what cross-hatching, I've seen pics in my haynes.
I'm not good at knowing all the part names. But I'll figure it out...
33K miles almost

[black98rs]

Re: piston rings

If you have severly overheated your motor and blew a head gasket, then junk the motor and purchase a replacement, generally the only time you would replace the rings is when the motor has "blow by"- when you remove the oil filler cap and there is fumes coming out. Over heating a engine will not do very much damage to the rings, it thends to have a effect on your bearings more than rings. It will be a lot easyer to replace the motor than to go through and rebuild it if your a noob. If your pulling a mid 13 on a n/a 3800 theres got to be somthing done to the internals.

[slow6]

Re: piston rings

If you have severly overheated your motor and blew a head gasket, then junk the motor and purchase a replacement, generally the only time you would replace the rings is when the motor has "blow by"- when you remove the oil filler cap and there is fumes coming out. Over heating a engine will not do very much damage to the rings, it thends to have a effect on your bearings more than rings. It will be a lot easyer to replace the motor than to go through and rebuild it if your a noob. If your pulling a mid 13 on a n/a 3800 theres got to be somthing done to the internals.

I'm not the only one running in the 13s with a N/A 3.8L. I basically have the same mods LittleG has. Just 4.10s/posi,good tuning, and weight reduction might get you there. I've already said that this was a new car when I purchased it, there is nothing done to the internals.

"""if you over heat the engine you can take the rings out quite easly . running lean can burn them up to . it's just a matter of how long you run it and how hot it gets"""

from: http://forum.camarov6.com/showthread.php?t=66434&page=2

Looks like I probably have to get new bearings too. Maybe I was having blow-by, just was'nt seeing very much smoke out of the oil filler tube? It smelled weird. Whenever I crank the engine I smell gas too.
thanks for the comments!

[slow6]

Re: piston rings

.
If your target is exceptional reliability or extreme HP you will have to do a complete teardown and inspection. At the other end of things, inservice tolerances might be acceptable for mild gains in HP thus complete teardown might not be required.

what do you mean by "inservice tolerances"? I think I know what you mean.. just making sure
There is soo much to learn, soo many checks/inspections!
So I will gather all my questions...

[CDNFB]

Re: piston rings

Inservice tolerance is the measured dimension or fit that a component will have that is between it's dimension when new and it's dimension when out of limits (or worn out).

Line bore: To ensure perfect alignment of the block main bearings bores. They install and torque the main caps and using a very long boring tool they ream the bores to perfect alignment. After this proceedure oversized bearings are required.

Deck the block: Using a milling machine to machine the surface of the block to ensure a perfectly flat surface for the heads to interface with. If you overheated your engine I would strongly recommend this!

Blueprinting: The engine block and heads are built to the exact tolerances and dimensions originally specified by the manufacturer or some other build specification.

Balancing: The main rotating group (pistons, wristpins, conrods, crank) are all balenced both statically and dynamically. For the static ballence each piece is weighed and all the same pieces are made the same as the lightest of the group. For example, all the pistons are weighed, then each piston that is heavier than the lightest piston is reworked until it weighs the same. When the static balance is finished the weights of the each piston assembly (piston, wrist pin, conrod, conrod cap, bolts, nuts, and bearings) are added up and that weight is added to the crankshaft where the pision attaches. When all the weights are added to the crank, the crank is then dynamically ballanced by spinning it on a special machine. In the end when it's all put together, you end up with an engine that runs much smoother, and because of that will last longer and/or take more horsepower.

These are only a few of the "magic" things a rebuild shop can do for you.

[slow6]

Re: piston rings

Deck the block: Using a milling machine to machine the surface of the block to ensure a perfectly flat surface for the heads to interface with. If you overheated your engine I would strongly recommend this!

In the Haynes it says to use a feeler gauge to check the deck/heads and see if it meets specifications. Should I still get it decked? You're the expert! ;)

[slow6]

Re: piston rings

We NEED a forum for Bottom End!!! The Advanced Tech section only says ""In-depth engine""" and never mentions anything about bottom end.
Bottom end is an art and requires ALOT of research, which the Advanced Section cant hold all the information of Bottom end

[CDNFB]

Re: piston rings

At absolute minimun I would check all 4 decks (heads and block). And make a descision based on the findings.

But what would you use as a straight edge or flat surface? Most Machine shops have big blocks of granite and steel that are true flats to do this work. The best shops use the latest 3D computer plotter program with a stylis (spelled that wrong!) arm which is accurate to tens of thousands of inches.

I know that without this kind of tooling I would probably screw it up and get wrong measurements (cause that kind of stuff always happens to me it seems)

So me personally, (so don't do this just cause I said I would) if it was my engine, I would outright deck both the block and heads. Not only does this ensure that block and heads are true, but it also ensures the proper surface finish for head gasket adhesion (thus reducing the likelyhood of blown head gaskets).

[HiperPaiz]

Re: piston rings

very nice information here. my car has 201,XXX miles on it and it runs like a champ but i was debating on getting it rebuilt by a pro shop or getting a low mileage at the junk and working on it myself. i really want it to be reliable so i decided that i'll take it to a pro to get it honed and balanced with all new internals.

[DeuceX]

Re: piston rings

I've been drooling over ZZP's stroker kit. The products over there will work on our cars no problem, right? I want to plan a rebuild that includes the stroker crank they have...:D

[techsan23]

Re: piston rings

the crank will fit but it looks like you have to use L32 rods and pistons to fit in the L36 block. i dont know how easy or expensive it would be to take that to a machine shop and tell them to make it fit.

[97rs4life]

Re: piston rings

the crank will fit but it looks like you have to use L32 rods and pistons to fit in the L36 block. i dont know how easy or expensive it would be to take that to a machine shop and tell them to make it fit.

thread digging huh? ;)

The zzp stroker is no good unless you are staying NA. The crank is too weak for anything more than NA. COME racings stroker kit will hold up to whatever you throw at it