Another research project? Steam powered S/C or other engine components

[FuryCharger]

Ok, I just got a new job working at a steam powered electric generation power plant, and I have learned more about steam in the past two weeks than I have my entire life.

Basically, if you can get water hot enough to where it becomes a very hot steam, it can be used as a very powerful force to basically push or turn anything.

This is really up in the air, but it IS possible to steam power a supercharger or most other engine components..... a lot of research would have to go into it, what do u guys think??

[Sean76]

Re: Another research project? Steam powered S/C or other engine components

How hot would you have to get the water to get a powerful enough steam? How would ou go about getting it to this temp?

[bah]

Re: Another research project? Steam powered S/C or other engine components

How hot would you have to get the water to get a powerful enough steam? How would ou go about getting it to this temp?

the ONLY reason why your cooling water doesnt boil or steam is because its a closed preassurized system, preassure wont let it boil, thats why you cant take off your rad cap when its hot, because you are likely to get a nasty suprise. and as for steam powering something, i say do it, just figure out what you are going to do and be the first to do it.

[FuryCharger]

Re: Another research project? Steam powered S/C or other engine components

thats the whole idea is how do you get the water to a high enough temperature. well in a power plant, the steam that turns a turbine thats 1000s of pounds is only about 670 degrees F. The gasses that flow out of the headers or manifolds are well over 1500 degrees, a temperature that is hot enough to heat up more than a little bit of water.

The trick is, just like the boiler in a power plant, you place dozens of small tubes covering the surface of the headers, kind of like an insulation. As the water passes through the tubes it picks up heat from the headers. with a header temperature of 1500+ degrees, the water in the tubes will reach 500+ degrees in no time therefore creating steam moving at incredible speeds. The steam would then go and spin a turbine in some sort of forced induction application.

This would not be part of the coolant system but a seperate system.

That is the overview, there would have to be a lot of engineering calculations done to prove the temperatures and the water phase changes. But its worth the thought.

[Muttled]

Re: Another research project? Steam powered S/C or other engine components

The first problem is weight. You have 2 ways of going about the water issue: have a large supply of water which can be vented (like in an old steam train) or have a condensor to turn it back to water (like in the old steam cars). Either way is going to add a decent amount of weight, and finding a place to put all the components will be fun too.

The second issue which needs to be figured out is if you are doing a steam piston or a steam turbine engine to spin it. With such a low amount of steam being produced (relative to a power plant), you may not be able to efficiently run a steam turbine, and at that point you'd be running a smaller engine in side of your car to drive the compressor. If you could make it reliable, great.

Also consider if you pull heat off the exhaust to a great degree, will you inhibit the functions of the cat?

[Digiphaze]

Re: Another research project? Steam powered S/C or other engine components

Of course what I'm about to suggest would definatly be a lot of block work and probably impossible. But if you could add water channels around the cylinders, you would technically be able to keep them cool and really jack up the compression ratio and then lean the system out a bit without buring up the pistons. Then use the high temp water (very high temp) to spin the turbo. This would technically make the engine increadibly efficient.

Kinda a replacement for water injection.

But this is wishfull thinking of course, I'm no machinist so I have no idea of what the possible implications in boring extra channels in the block are.

[Muttled]

Re: Another research project? Steam powered S/C or other engine components

I think the problem with that idea is the same reason we don't run open thermostats: the engine would take forever to heat up and the hotter an engine is, theoretically the more efficient it is (to a point I'd imagine, you'll have arguments both ways here).

The idea of taking it off the exhaust is that exhaust is almost completely waste heat, of which some energy could be extracted.

Fury: I'm actually building a steam engine as a side project. Feel free to message me if you want to share ideas.

[FuryCharger]

Re: Another research project? Steam powered S/C or other engine components

yes you would have the exhaust superheat the water to dry steam which could theoretically have a psi of possibly 1500. Thats a lot of poressure, and you wouldnt have the pistons being driven by the steam but a supercharger. It would be a totally separate system.

Working at the power plant here I am doing a little project on steam temps and pressures and seeing what kind of forces different temps and pressures can accomplish

[SpeedingFirebird]

Re: Another research project? Steam powered S/C or other engine components

Car & Driver discussed this last month. BMW is trying to use the steam from the cooling system to assist in propelling the car. The name is dumb, turbo steamer (makes me think of crappy iron for college kids).

They had a few technical drawings. Much more complicated than I would have thought.

[Muttled]

Re: Another research project? Steam powered S/C or other engine components

When I said pistons, I was referring to how you would convert the steam to rotary motion: you either have to use a turbine or a piston system. A turbine might not be very efficient for such a relatively low volume of steam.

The BMW design is different because the smaller steam engine will directly connect to the crank to directly put power to the ground, a system which I assume would be difficult for us because of the fabrication (on top of our existing obstacles to overcome) to attach what's essentially another engine to the crank.

Fury: IM me at citizencynic, I want to exchange a few ideas with you.