Many rebuild questions...

[slow6]

1) If I remove the balance shaft will it shorten my engine's life? Can I have ANY info on removing it?

2) If I barely have a cylinder ridge if at all, can I not use a ridge reamer? If the piston will slide out with any trouble at all?

3) doing a piston ring swap do I have to remove the core/freeze plugs? I guess so, if I wanna clean the engine...

4) Do I need new cam bearings? There WAS coolant in oil/crankcase and the engine DID overheat a few times..

5) Do I really need a piston groove cleaner? or should I just use a piece of broken ring? I know I dont wanna scratch anything

6) Do I really need a piston ring expander/installer? An autozone clerk told me to just do it by hand, but I dont know if I trust any more clerks after a bad experience.

7) Do I need a crank balancer tool? Or will a machine shop balance the crank too if I take it in to get balanced?

8) Would putting moly-lithium grease on my pushrods to lubricate the lower ends be bad for my engine? Will it eat up my parts?

9) Doing a ring swap, is there anything I have to change out for sure? I'm sure I will have to change out some parts if they check out bad.

[CHEVYINSIDE]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

1) sorry dont know about it
2)you could probably get away without useing it , If you had a reidge built up it might possibly get the piston stuck or snap a ring .Just my experince
3)If you just changing rings you dont have to pull the freeze plugs
4)i couldnt tell you you would have to pull the cam and inspect them , also measure them with a gauge
5)there cheap to buy and the help prevent the rings from sticking i would do it .
6)once agian cheap tool to add to the collection. you could try pushing the rings in by had but youll get very fusstratted (spell) after the first on . you also dont want to risk snapping a ring .
7)only the machine shop can balance a crank . plus you can get cranks that have been rebuild from your local napa and such
8)i forget what the grease is called but it's start up lube . you put it on all the bearing surfaces to prevednt gaulling .i wouldnt leave it out . it also just breakes down in the oil .
9)look for crackes in the cylinder lineing , hone the cylinders to make sure there cross hatched . replace all gaskets . inspect the bearing surfaces .look for signs of a warped block or heads .
10) If i were in your position (witch i was a year ago ) i would just save all the hassle and put a used low mileage motor in . It will cost you a lot less in the long and short run . It aint fun to pull the motor out and in my cause i did it three times . I found a motor from a 05 lasabre with 7,000 miles on it . jmust changed the obviuos stuff like oil pump , pan , maifolds, intake . it's been great ever sense .

but hey it's you decision

[slow6]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

the motor is already out
why did you have to do yours 3 times? did you not do it right the first time?
thanks for all the advice!!!

[CDNFB]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

The balance shaft in our engine has absolutely nothing to do in regards to the balance of the engines rotating internals. All it does is provide a timed counter inpulse to null out the natural tendency of these engines to shake at idle and low RPM. It's a customer convienience thing. People were complaining that the GM V6 engines ran rougher in comparision with other manufacturers, especially Japanese V6s. So GM introduce balenace shafts. All GM engines with the "hundreds" and/or vortec designations have balence shafts. For example:
3.8 V6 - no balance shaft
3800 V6 - balance shaft
3.4 V6 - no balance shaft
3400 v6 - balance shaft
4.3 V6 - no balance shaft
4300 Vortec - balance shaft
etc.....

The longevity/reliability of your engine will not be affected by the balence shaft removal. But you will notice it will idle rougher that before. My Father-in-laws GN is a 3.8 (no balance shaft), and it shakes at idle. I rather like that as it feels more like it's got a heavy cam in it!

By the way, you can't take just your crank down the shop and have it balanced. They would need all your reciprocating parts as well (pistons, rings, con-rods, bearings, con bolts, wirst pins, etc...). Also, if the crank needs grinding, that would have to be done before balancing as well.

I've always cleaned my pison ring grooves with Green Scotch Bright pads. Don't use white, too soft. Don't use brown, too harsh.

[Hib Halverson]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

1) If I remove the balance shaft will it shorten my engine's life? Can I have ANY info on removing it?

The balance shaft is discussed above. It can be removed with no ills other than the engine will vibrate more at idle and at low speed due to the engine's firing impulses.

2) If I barely have a cylinder ridge if at all, can I not use a ridge reamer? If the piston will slide out with any trouble at all?

ANY, ridge means the engine has sustained a certain level of wear and the cyilnders are tapered. Obviously, a slight amount of taper is acceptable but not ideal, however, a lot of taper requies overbore. Any ridge needs to be cut with a ridge reamer before removing the pistons. You risk breaking or bending the piston ring lands if you don't.

3) doing a piston ring swap do I have to remove the core/freeze plugs? I guess so, if I wanna clean the engine...

You answered your own question.

4) Do I need new cam bearings? There WAS coolant in oil/crankcase and the engine DID overheat a few times..

I'd inspect the cam bearings. If they are in good condition, I'd leave them, unless...you hot tank the block. In that case, you need to remove them before tanking and put new ones, in later.

5) Do I really need a piston groove cleaner? or should I just use a piece of broken ring? I know I dont wanna scratch anything

A piece of broken ring will work but a piston ring groove cleaning tool will make the job far easier. DO NOT use an abrasive pad (Scotchbrite) as they leave abrasive residue behind. If you insist on the Scotchbrite, then, after you take that risk, you need to thorougly wash each piston.

6) Do I really need a piston ring expander/installer? An autozone clerk told me to just do it by hand, but I dont know if I trust any more clerks after a bad experience.

You can put the rings on w/o an expander tool but you must be very careful to not break the ring which is easy to do if your technique is wrong.

7) Do I need a crank balancer tool? Or will a machine shop balance the crank too if I take it in to get balanced?

If you mean a puller...yes. You'll also need a big socket and a huge breaker bar to remove and then retighten the crank shaft damper bolt. See the Service Manual for details on this. Proper tightening of that bolt is critical.

8) Would putting moly-lithium grease on my pushrods to lubricate the lower ends be bad for my engine? Will it eat up my parts?

You need to use moly grease or, better yet a dedicated engine assembly lube on both ends of the pushrods. It will not "eat-up" your parts. After the engine is fired the first time and run 500 miles, change the oil filter.

9) Doing a ring swap, is there anything I have to change out for sure? I'm sure I will have to change out some parts if they check out bad.

You need a set of gaskets. You may need a timing chain tensioner. You might even need a new chain set.

A lot of what you need or do not need depends on the condition of the engine.

[slow6]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

thanks I'm happy with the responses/advice!

[CDNFB]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

[ If you insist on the Scotchbrite, then, after you take that risk, you need to thorougly wash each piston.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, always clean the heck out of everything!:)

[slow6]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

I've got a BUNCH of green pads, but they arent bright green, they're darker
I dont think I will use them, dont want to scratch anything

[CHEVYINSIDE]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

I Had a bad rod bearing in it , replaced the rod and crankshaft , ran 200 miles had a second rod bearing let go had to pull it twice . after that i pulled it agin to replace the engine . i do a lot of driving with this car and needed it to be reliable . I dont know why the second one let go it was all in spec but made quite a sound .

[slow6]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

cheaper to buy a used engine huh?

[NOS2006]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

I Had a bad rod bearing in it , replaced the rod and crankshaft , ran 200 miles had a second rod bearing let go had to pull it twice . after that i pulled it agin to replace the engine . i do a lot of driving with this car and needed it to be reliable . I dont know why the second one let go it was all in spec but made quite a sound .

Didn't you get a whole new rod bearing/main bearing set in the first place? That would've made a lot more sense.

[CDNFB]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

If your aspiration is to reliably demand major HP from this 3800 your going to have to go the rebuild route in a major way. Even in this case I would consider going and getting a L67 block and heads from the wreckers and start from there!

If you are only going to bump the HP up a bit and live with it till you drop in an LS1 (you mentioned you want to do that) then go get a low mileage 3800 from the bone yard and drop her in. You will be many $$$ ahead of the game! $$$ that could be put towards your LS1 and stuff.

If you get your 3800 rebuilt to stock specs your only gain is that you have an engine that is for all intents and purposes, new. I saw in another post on here that a 3800 from GM Direct was $2500 (not sure if that's re-manufactured or new).

Call the used parts dealers in your area and get some prices. That will give you an idea about what kind of $$$ we're talking here. Might help you make your decision.

[slow6]

Re: Many rebuild questions...

I'm definately just rebuilding until I get a LS1/LS2 to save $$$
Thats GOT to be the price of a new/remanufactured engine.
I see on junkyards that the lower prices for 3.8s are $350-$550 for used with like 20k - 80k miles. I'm about to find out shipping.

Heres a quote on a rebuild that Lance/Abbott sent me:

"""Hey,

A rebuild kit for the 3.8 is $467.88 without pistons and if you want to bore it out and put some new larger pistons, its $652.74. Thats with performance main and rod bearings, cam bearings, all the gaskets, rings, and pistons. Let me know!! later

-Lance Abbott """

SO $500 for a completely rebuilt (new) engine would be $500.. with "performance" main & rod bearings, cam bearings, all gaskets, rings, and pistons!
Sounds tempting, but I want the LS1 more than a turboed 6.