GTP injectors on N/A setup?

[UDLOSE98]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

by accident, but yea

[JohnnyC]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

if your cars cam/valvetrain isnt made to make power that high than simply put, it won't. If you shift a 150hp '97 mustang V6 at 6k its not going to make 200 horsepower like our cars ;)

Eliminate valve float, correct duration lift and separation and it'll pull hard to 7k, correct me if I am wrong.

Also I might add... Horsepower = torque* RPM/5252, so at stock torque levels of 225 ft pounds, I'd be making just shy of 300 horses at the crank. this is all purely theoretical, and assuming the engine had the same power producing characteristics that it does now, except at 7k. This figure isn't entirely correct though, because 225*5200/5252 = 222.7 hp. Then again our engines aren't too far from that with free-breathing intake and exhaust... just a thought. Cams do help the torque band out a bit too I'm sure, so do that 7k figure using 235 ft pounds torque... 313hp, subtract 20% for drivetrain loss, hell even 30% figuring the stock 2 piece drivetrain and whatnot. :)

[rdrr96]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

NA dyno record for a 3800 was like 256 whp or something like that. so 300 whp would yes be very impressive for a NA 3800... but highly improbable. im going to be trying for 250 at the wheels cuz id still be walking up on a lot of cars with just that.

if you want a NA 3800 to be a sleeper id recommend a great suspension set up so you just hook up and go. good enough so you can launch the car pretty hard. that alone would surprise a lot of people. so get the engine work done, go to suspension, then make sure you can stop!

[JohnnyC]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

lol definitely. I'm thinking even 250rwhp I should be able to walk plenty of people based on the driver mod alone :burn: and well yes suspension, good rubber, gears (4.10s if i go with the gforce box) and of course maximizing the efficiency of everything and reducing drag to the max. i looked under the waterpump and saw some room for improving flow under there (a little tiny notch before the water port starts that can probably be grinded down reducing drag a little), bigger oil filter for that much less strain on the oil pump, forcing the oil through a greater surface area, good wheel bearings with breaks that don't give too much friction when not activated, misc. weight reduction mods, aluminum driveshaft of course, proper engine oil, trans. fluid and gear oil in the back for reduced friction, underdrive water pump (the 3hp makes a difference) and whatever else I find that I can improve. Now that I am thinking about it, I may throw some l32 rods and flat tops into the block before i put it in the car... an extra 1000 bucksbut worth it for n/a?

Also, was that N/A record on an auto or manual? manual gearboxes are higher efficiency, so that translates to more power to the wheels ;)

Also, 250rwhp is easily 300-350 at the crankshaft right? Figuring 30% loss, 320hp (the happy medium) is alot of power for any car

[97rs4life]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

NA dyno record for a 3800 was like 256 whp or something like that. so 300 whp would yes be very impressive for a NA 3800... but highly improbable. im going to be trying for 250 at the wheels cuz id still be walking up on a lot of cars with just that.

Lance's NA firebird did like 271rwhp before the auto trans swap. That is the highest NA dyno I have ever seen for a street driven NA 3800 fbody.

[JohnnyC]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

Lance's NA firebird did like 271rwhp before the auto trans swap. That is the highest NA dyno I have ever seen for a street driven NA 3800 fbody.

On a stock shortblock nonetheless but he had his serpentine belt off for that. Anyone know what his numbers are now with the fullly built bottom end, big valve heads and the bigger .572" cam?

[WickEdSix9838]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

alumin heads NA is over kill, you will never outflow those, NA need not go higher than abbott stage 2! if you have that much money to spend you should be going FI

ps only way you are gonna make that kinda power NA is with a stroker kit.

Sorry Dan, but you're VERY mis-informed. ANY engine regardless of how its set up will benefit from better heads. An engine is basically a big air pump, the more you can get in and out, the more power it will make. Our stage 3's will support up to 357hp on a naturally aspirated engine given you have the right combination. The aluminum heads, if they will in fact flow 300cfm will support around 462hp.

BTW,300rwhp NA is do-able with a 5 speed, it only costs money.

[WickEdSix9838]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

On a stock shortblock nonetheless but he had his serpentine belt off for that. Anyone know what his numbers are now with the fullly built bottom end, big valve heads and the bigger .572" cam?

I haven't re-dynoed the car since the big cam swap, but I also have an auto with a 4000 stall that kills RWHP numbers. Track numbers are what matter anyways and on my best pass of a 13.30@102.44 with the stock bottom end I ran a 8.51@81 in the eighth. I've recently run a 8.31@79 at a higher altitude track and hopefully next time out I'll run some 8.0's-8.1's with the new changes. I'm expecting atleast 12.4's in the quarter when I go down to a sea level track.

[JohnnyC]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

Thats sick, I'd love to do 12s N/A eventually. I do contemplate whether the car had work done to it previously though because with my current mods im hitting 94mph in less than favorable conditions on my skinny tires too, just a K&N, highflow cat, catback, clutch and flywheel right now, along with !egr, !maf screen, no spare tire/jack and bigger oil filter. maybe it has a very mild cam or rockers? i havent taken it apart yet

[WickEdSix9838]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

Thats pretty good MPH for no more than you have. Easy mid 14's.

[UDLOSE98]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

Sorry Dan, but you're VERY mis-informed. ANY engine regardless of how its set up will benefit from better heads. An engine is basically a big air pump, the more you can get in and out, the more power it will make. Our stage 3's will support up to 357hp on a naturally aspirated engine given you have the right combination. The aluminum heads, if they will in fact flow 300cfm will support around 462hp.

BTW,300rwhp NA is do-able with a 5 speed, it only costs money.

you ar ethe expert, but it doesnt make sense to me.

[Smoke Panther]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

Also, was that N/A record on an auto or manual? manual gearboxes are higher efficiency, so that translates to more power to the wheels ;)

Which also translates into longer shifting times. 98% of the time, a machine can shift faster than a human...it may be a fraction of a second less, but fractions of a second are all that matter on the 1/4-mile strip

[JohnnyC]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

462hp n/a would definitely be nice... 357HP is coincidentially roughly around the 250-260rwhp mark figuring 30% drivetrain loss, which might be an exaggerated figure but still just for discussions sake, seems about right. But yes, if the heads are the weak point or if they act as a bottleneck and then you install better flowing heads, you've then eliminated a bottleneck and you will increase the airflow of your engine, increasing its power... right?

[JohnnyC]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

Which also translates into longer shifting times. 98% of the time, a machine can shift faster than a human...it may be a fraction of a second less, but fractions of a second are all that matter on the 1/4-mile strip

Absolutely true, especially for MPH on the 1/4 mile. Each fraction of a second you take to shift can't be seen though as time added onto your ET unless your car were to come to a complete stop everytime you shift. Like that extra 2/10ths of a second shifting isnt going to take 2/10ths off your ET unless your car was stopped completely for that time. MPH gains I think would be bigger than ET gains since in 1/10th of a second, how much are you really accelerating? on average probably like 0.8 MPH, averaging from out of the hole its closer to 2mph / 10th of a second. Lets say the automatic trans. shifts 1/10th of a second faster than I do, but is 5% less efficient. MPH times will be up but will 1/4 mile times be that greatly affected? I wouldn't think so by too much. Also figure in that autos usually have farther, taller, longer gearing. Good for your mph definitely but I don't think it'd help your ET too much. Just my thoughts though, I'm still learning :)

[Smoke Panther]

Re: GTP injectors on N/A setup?

Absolutely true, especially for MPH on the 1/4 mile. Each fraction of a second you take to shift can't be seen though as time added onto your ET unless your car were to come to a complete stop everytime you shift. Like that extra 2/10ths of a second shifting isnt going to take 2/10ths off your ET unless your car was stopped completely for that time. MPH gains I think would be bigger than ET gains since in 1/10th of a second, how much are you really accelerating? on average probably like 0.8 MPH, averaging from out of the hole its closer to 2mph / 10th of a second. Lets say the automatic trans. shifts 1/10th of a second faster than I do, but is 5% less efficient. MPH times will be up but will 1/4 mile times be that greatly affected? I wouldn't think so by too much. Also figure in that autos usually have farther, taller, longer gearing. Good for your mph definitely but I don't think it'd help your ET too much. Just my thoughts though, I'm still learning :)

It is obvious you're still learning. For that fraction of a second that your car is out of gear, your car is no longer accelerating. How much it's decelerating at and how much that'll effect your 1/4 time may not be easily calculated, but few things about drag racing are; it's a moot point to play with numbers in your head. You're relying too much on speculation and formulas; those can lie and are not accurate enough for hundreths of a second. what you need is to look at real times. for example


Car 1
1.80 60'
8.602 1/8th at 78.91 mph
13.619 1/4 at 96.21 mph
auto transmission

Car 2
1.82 60'
8.65 1/8th at 79.35 mph
13.64 1/4 at 98.62
manual transmission


^these numbers are from real Timeslips from 2 cammed V6's. As you can see, efficiency in the transfer of power does not equate into proportionately faster ET's. You can throw around all the numbers and fractions you want...they can be manipulated to give you whatever answer you want to see. Regardless of whatever answer you get, those two timeslips I gave will always read the same, no matter how much you want them to agree with your line of thinking