Rocker Q's.

[tkoforpresident]

I have a 93 3.4 that is leaking pretty bad at the valve covers. I was thinking while I had them off i would replace the gaskets and go ahead and replace the rockers with some high performance ones. I have some minor experience and my friend is a pretty good mechanic and would help me with this. Removing the valve covers is simple enough right? I don'tthink you have to remove the plenum or do you? Anyways, if its easy enough id like to replace the rockers. Are rockers something that is done easily enough by yourself? Are they simply bolt and go? When you replace the old ones with upgraded ones will you have to tinker with any other things to get them to work properly? General Cost? go ahead and shoot me down if this is not a good idea, just tell me why. Considering I had full bolt ons what would the gains be by simply replacing the rockers? Is it even worth it? I dont want to get deep into my engine but rockers seem to be right there in the open. Thanx for any of the answers to my Q's.

max

i just looked in my haynes manual, looks like i'd need to take off the whole plenum =( just for replacing the gaskets and the rockers it may not be worth it huh

[badinfluenceRS]

Re: Rocker Q's.

if you have a leak you should fix it

never taken off a 3.4 intake but all the other's I have taken off are quick and easy. Make sure to use the tq specs provided when re-installing them.

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Rocker Q's.

if you have a leak you should fix it

never taken off a 3.4 intake but all the other's I have taken off are quick and easy. Make sure to use the tq specs provided when re-installing them.

i just went outside and looked, i would have to take off my egr, plenum, fuel rails.... i don't know if i have the skills to do that honestly, but if i could get those off it looks like i could get them off pretty easily.

[FunkZ]

Re: Rocker Q's.

On the 3.4 you have to remove the plenum to get the valve covers off. And because the fuel rail is bolted down in the plenum valley you have to remove that as well. There is a fuel line tool you have to use to disconnect the lines going to the fuel rail. You could probably just unbolt everything and work around it, but getting to the valve covers and rockers would be much easier without that on there.

1.6 is as high a ratio as I've seen for 3.4 rockers. Going from the stock 1.5 ratio to 1.6 means about .03" extra lift. That's almost the same increase as dropping in the Crane 260 cam, assuming your stock cam and lifters aren't so worn that you're missing several hundreds there. It should be good for a few horses, although power from a camshaft also comes from the degree of advance.

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Rocker Q's.

thanks zahn i figured as much... on a scale of 1-10 whats the difficulty of removing these things, replacing the valve cover gaskets and rockers.

Im seriously considering doing this as i have the time needed before spring. Are 1.6 rockers direct bolt and go? as in could i simply replace them and not have to replace the pushrods or the springs? Rockers i have found are not too expensive alone and i figured i might as well if im replacing the valve cover gaskets. Also Zahn could you help me out? i've been looking over your site about your rebuild.... do you think i could find some spare valve covers out there like you did? then i wouldn't have to worry about damaging them.
would these work? :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Edelb...spagenameZWD1V

Also can anyone send me a link to the rockers that i would need to buy... looking for 1.6 rockers here. Whats that special tool you need to remove the fuel lines? how much is it? how do you use it?

sorry for all the Q's but i need to know because i actually want to do this, it will be my first time actually delving into my engine and i'm pretty stoked.

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Rocker Q's.

anyone?? =)

[FunkZ]

Re: Rocker Q's.

Yes, the Edelbrock chrome valve covers fit the 3.4 - they are basically like the stock steel covers, just chromed. I think they even take the stock gaskets.

It is not difficult (as in requiring extensive knowledge) to replace the valve covers and rockers, just time consuming and a pain because you're working under the cowl. You will want a fuel line disconnect tool and a decent set of tools. You'll need a deep 10mm socket to get the valve cover nuts off those long studs. The most complicated part is retightening the rocker nuts.

Yes you can replace the rockers without changing anything else, since you're only going from 1.5 to 1.6 - the easiest ones to find are the Comp Magnum roller-tip rockers, they're a little over $100 for the set. Or you can try to track down a set of early FWD 3.1 rockers, these were factory stamped steel and 1.6 ratio, this is what I have on mine. I just happened across a used set.

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Rocker Q's.

i see you got a great deal on them too!

so use the cork gasket with the edelbrock valve covers, buy a deep 10mm socket, i've got a whole array of tools, do you have a part # or link as to where i can get that exact set of roller tip rockers?
are these the right ones?

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku
And when it comes to retightening the rockers isnt there a specific way to do it like you have to turn the crankshaft and do them a few cylinders at a time? i think thats what i saw in my haynes manual which will also come in handy for the installl... Thanx

Max

[greasemonkey]

Re: Rocker Q's.

Removing anything top engine is as easy as remembering where everything went. That sums it up. I've never used a torque wrench on an intake (but you should) as long as you tighten it down nice and flat, your golden.

Tightening rockers - install them, tighten them down, spin the engine 2 or 3 times, tighten again. Drive the car for a week or so, remove valve covers and check them one more time. Torque wrenches are always the way to go, but snug them down really well without breaking them if you don't have one.

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Rocker Q's.

remove valve covers again? .... how bout no

what total gaskets will i need? plenum gasket? obviously valve cover gaskets, will i remove the whole egr? if so i will buy a new gasket for that too.

Is there anything else i'm forgetting to buy for this procedure?

oh and i could still use a link to the correct rockers =)

pretty sure these are the right ones though...someone confirm? http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku


might as well throw out some more Q's for answerin.....

will i need to buy new rocker arm studs? How bout valve springs, do i have to replace those? what about the guide plates? anything?

Will i need to drain either the coolant or the oil before taking off the plenum and valve covers?
Whats the best way to depressurize the fuel system?...take off gas cap and what else?
Should/can I clean up the upper intake when i have it off? Should i polish it or anything?

[FunkZ]

Re: Rocker Q's.

Greasemonkey you got it wrong. There is a procedure for tightening the rockers on a 60° motor, they're adjustable and you have to worry about setting proper valve lash, you can't just torque 'em down.

Max follow the Haynes. Turn it to TDC for #1 (use a screwdriver in the spark plug hole to tell when the piston is all the way up) and tighten the ones it says. Then rotate the engine to TDC for #4 and do the others. Basically when you're done you should have 3½ threads showing above each rocker nut. My advice, follow the procedure and use that as a double-check before buttoning everything back up.

You will probably have the EGR off if you're taking off the passenger side valve cover. I think the TB gasket and plenum to LIM gasket were in good shape and could be reused, they don't see any fluids. The EGR gasket will probably come apart and you'll need to replace.

Yes those are the rockers, (CCA-1414-12) check over at ftpp.net though they're cheaper.

Don't need to drain coolant or oil.
Take the cap off the schrader valve (top front of fuel rail) and bleed it there, just like an air valve on a wheel.
You can clean it out. Lay a rag over the LIM so you don't accidentally drop anything down in the runners.

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Rocker Q's.

Greasemonkey you got it wrong. There is a procedure for tightening the rockers on a 60° motor, they're adjustable and you have to worry about setting proper valve lash, you can't just torque 'em down.

Max follow the Haynes. Turn it to TDC for #1 (use a screwdriver in the spark plug hole to tell when the piston is all the way up) and tighten the ones it says. Then rotate the engine to TDC for #4 and do the others. Basically when you're done you should have 3½ threads showing above each rocker nut. My advice, follow the procedure and use that as a double-check before buttoning everything back up.

You will probably have the EGR off if you're taking off the passenger side valve cover. I think the TB gasket and plenum to LIM gasket were in good shape and could be reused, they don't see any fluids. The EGR gasket will probably come apart and you'll need to replace.

Yes those are the rockers, (CCA-1414-12) check over at ftpp.net though they're cheaper.

Don't need to drain coolant or oil.
Take the cap off the schrader valve (top front of fuel rail) and bleed it there, just like an air valve on a wheel.
You can clean it out. Lay a rag over the LIM so you don't accidentally drop anything down in the runners.

thanx zahn, thats really helpful info.

I just bought a deep 10mm socket, and will buy the new gaskets in a few days. I looked at some of the fuel line removal tools at advance and there is an expensive metal one and some cheaper plastic ones that are smaller, any idea which one i should buy to disconnect the fuel lines? my haynes doesnt say.
I'm gonna go ahead and pick up some of those edelbrock valve covers, that way i don't have to worry about the stock ones if they're really stuck on there, plus they obviously don't look as good as the chrome ones.
I'll check out fttp.net but i did find the same rockers for 120 shipped from a not so popular website, but if i found a close deal to that from a better website like fttp i wouldnt hesitate to pick them up from there.

I will let you guys know when i start tearing into my engine, as im sure i will come across some Q's along the way.

Max

[FunkZ]

Re: Rocker Q's.

I used a metal one but there's not much to the tool, probably plastic would serve just as well. Do they offer that on a loan/rent or do you have to buy one?

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Rocker Q's.

I used a metal one but there's not much to the tool, probably plastic would serve just as well. Do they offer that on a loan/rent or do you have to buy one?

eh, looks like its a buy only, unless i used it once then returned it =)

but the plastic ones arenet expensive and it looks like they come with a number of different sizes, so i'll probably just buy the set for a few bux. Who knows i might have to remove the lines another time. I've heard people using the tools have either gotten them off with no problem or had a very difficult time getting them off, hopefully my situation will be the former and not the latter. If tomorrow is nice out, i'm going to start pullin out all the sensors and disconnecting easy things. I'll use tape to # everything. I have the time so i might as well be careful, especially since it will be at least a week til i can order the valve covers and rocker arms. I'll keep you guys updated on the progress as im sure i will have more questions to follow. Appreciate the help so far zahn, check back on the thread every now and then since i'm sure i'll need some more solid advice.

Max

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Rocker Q's.

ok guys, first update!

and its not good....

Here's what i have disconnected or taken out of the car:

intake elbow
throttle body
throttle cables and case
the whole EGR
drivebelt
alternator rear bracket
valve cover to elbow tube and grommet
And I disconnected many of the sensors and labled them

heres whats gone wrong so far:

Broke a bolt in the lower EGR (where the header is) =(

Broke some wires that look like they were grounded to the block.

Now a few Q's to continue my progress:

1. Where do the fuel lines disconnect? (is it right by the coil packs?)
2. How do you get out a bolt that is 1/4 of an inch out, out? i soaked it in pb blaster and tried vice grips but the bolt is pointin up so i can only try to turn the top of the bolt and it just kept slipping off my vice grips.
3. How many plenum bolts are there and where are they located? i saw 4 and they were on the top of the plenum, is that all of them?

thanx!