Welcome to the FirebirdV6.com/CamaroV6.com forums.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
degreeing the cam is only necessary on high performance apps really
as im sure you know, you can setup your cam to be advance, retard, or straight up
people use degree wheels because timing tabs arent precise enough, for instance i used a piston stop to find exactly where TDC is on my engine, and i found out that true TDC was completely off of the tab, so my timing was 8*+ off
for instance, when you line up the marks on your cam to the crank, they might line up perfectly, but in reality your cam might be 2* advance out of rotation, so if you wanted a true straight up cam you would have to retard the cam by 2*
edit* and sorry if that made no sense, but its late and im really damn tired
if noone else posts, i will do a better descrip tomorrow
thanks...damn, that makes installing a cam seem so flipping complicated...what do they mean roll it out of the engine?...I though you want to pull it straight out and not wiggle or rotate anything...
Degreeing the cam is basically used to make sure you intake center line matches whats on the cam card. Most cam companies design their cam specs around stock components. A lot of aftermarket parts are built to different specs/tolerances than stock parts. For example, an aftermarket crank may not have the crank key way ground in the exact same spot as a stock gm crank. So if you install you cam straight up, it might actually be a few degrees advanced or retarded. Basically you want to degree your cam to make sure your cam opens and closes according to the cam card.
Say you cam card says the intake center line is 110. You line up the dot to dot on the crank and timing gears. When you degree your cam you get 110, so your cam is installed straight up and requires no changes. Say you come up with 106 even though you lined it up dot to dot on the timing gears. This can happen when you install aftermarket cranks etc. Now your cam is 4 degrees advanced. in this case you retard the cam 4 degrees to bring you intake center line back to 106. Unless you designed your engine to run more advance, your best bet is to install the cam straight up.
The pdf file from comp listed above is a pretty good reference for degreeing a cam. It may take a few tries to get tdc, but once you do make sure you don't move the degree wheel or you have to start all over again. Also if your using a dial indicator off a pushrod, make sure its straight. If its angled, your readings will be off. I cound comp cams crank socket with the locking nut to hold the degree wheel to be the best.
It sounds kind of complicated....This is a cam only install....crank and everything is still the same....I still have to degree it right?
Am I just pulling everything off, putting a wheel on the crank gear....cranking it until it reads the right number...then off I go? How do I know for sure if it has been degreed properly?
also...since I am not sure about degreeing...can I just install the cam and then take it to a friend, or mechanic to have it degreed?...how much more work is that? Like what would I need re take apart to degree it if I installed and put everything back together and then decidede to degree it later?
Hi,I honestly think you should let someone do the installation before you cause engine damage like valve to piston contact,it is quite an advance stage of tuning and should never be done by someone who don't know nothing or little.
I agree with having your cam degeed. I got my Abbott N/A cam off here from someone. Had my engine guy degree the cam for me. It was coming up 6 degrees retarted. He did it a handfull of times. Sent the cam back to comp cams to have it put on a "dyno doctor" they call it. Comp Cams doesnt sell a cam out of spec and if it is they replace it for free. Got the cam back first try degreed it right on. Figure that one out. I'm glad I had mine degreed.
What does it take to go back and degree it once the cam is installed though?...Like lets say I install the cam straight up...then I take it to a speed shop or mechanic to have them degree it...how much labour am I looking at? Im am sure they dont have to tear down the whole thing....
You say part of how you learn is doing it yourself. Degreeing a cam is no different. Don't waste your time installing your cam to drive the car to a shop to have it degreed. Once its back together, your just throwing away money. Here is another quick reference article for degreeing a cam. It sound more complicated than it is. If your actually going to do the work and swap out a cam, you should be able to follow these steps. Summit or jegs sells a dial indicator, base, degree wheel,and crank socket. With labor rates as high as they are, you could buy these parts and spend an hour or two making sure your cam is installed correctly for much less than paying someone to do it.
very true...the readings make it sound soo much more complicated then what it probably is though...I just want to know that if I get stuck on the degreeing part that I will still be ok to seal her up and bring her some where...If I can figure out how to do it myself I will definetly do it myself... I think I am also going to pick up one of those tune a cam kits
What do they mean by you need "A rigid stand that mounts to the engine or with a magnetic base to hold the dial indicator will also be required"?
Also, as stated before, I am only doing a Cam only install...I have been thinking about getting those single roller timing chains, but the stronger ones that you can also adjust...are these just a waste of money? is my current one fine? or should I be looking at a double roller?...I think a double roller will be a little bit of overkill for my application personally...
Your going to need a kit like the one below or check out Powerhouse Products. This is a cheap kit and will get the job done. This kit includes a degree wheel, magnetic base, dial indicator, and light valve springs. If you don't want to change out your valve springs to degree your cam, buy a single solid roller lifter. Your car has hydraulic lifters and they will compress under the spring with no oil in them and give you false readings. Just make sure to remove the solid lifter after your done degreeing the cam.
When you mount your heads to the block, their isn't enough room material to attach the magnetic base of the dial indicator stand too and forgot about it if your running aluminum heads, I used a fuel pump plate from a small block chevy gen 1 and mounted it to the valve cover bolt holes. You'll have to figure some way to securely mount the dial indicator where thel indicator will line up with the pushrod.
Check out the super chevy link below. it has pictures in it.
When you degree your cam, your just checking to make sure it opens/closed according to the cam card. Your not going to mess anything up if you install it dot to dot and don't degree it. Follow the instructions and you'll be fine. I highly recommend you replace your timing chain when doing a cam change. The better timing chains have the ability to advance or retard your timing. If its not to much more, get the double roller.
Your going to need a kit like the one below or check out Powerhouse Products. This is a cheap kit and will get the job done. This kit includes a degree wheel, magnetic base, dial indicator, and light valve springs. If you don't want to change out your valve springs to degree your cam, buy a single solid roller lifter. Your car has hydraulic lifters and they will compress under the spring with no oil in them and give you false readings. Just make sure to remove the solid lifter after your done degreeing the cam.
When you mount your heads to the block, their isn't enough room material to attach the magnetic base of the dial indicator stand too and forgot about it if your running aluminum heads, I used a fuel pump plate from a small block chevy gen 1 and mounted it to the valve cover bolt holes. You'll have to figure some way to securely mount the dial indicator where thel indicator will line up with the pushrod.
Check out the super chevy link below. it has pictures in it.
When you degree your cam, your just checking to make sure it opens/closed according to the cam card. Your not going to mess anything up if you install it dot to dot and don't degree it. Follow the instructions and you'll be fine. I highly recommend you replace your timing chain when doing a cam change. The better timing chains have the ability to advance or retard your timing. If its not to much more, get the double roller.
Holy crap...ok, sorry...few more questions now...
1) the kit includes light valve springs? what does that mean...I will already be ordering a set of 105# springs...do I need that? or is this something else...
2) what do you mean by "single solid roller lifter" I will be ordering a set of these http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...=109&catid=104 is that ok?
3) I have no idea what you meant by
"When you mount your heads to the block, their isn't enough room material to attach the magnetic base of the dial indicator stand too and forgot about it if your running aluminum heads, I used a fuel pump plate from a small block chevy gen 1 and mounted it to the valve cover bolt holes. You'll have to figure some way to securely mount the dial indicator where thel indicator will line up with the pushrod.
Check out the super chevy link below. it has pictures in it."
I looked at the pictures...but I will not be removing the heads, and I will be doing this with the engine in the car...
also, do I really need that socket, or can I get away with just using a wrench?
also, I am going to be replacing the timing chain with another single one...but a strong single one that is adjustable for timing...so since the timing is adjustable, can the cam be degreed that way?
You have hydraulic roller lifters in your car and your ordering new hydraulic lifters. Hydraulic lifters have a plunger assembly in them and they are designed to fill with oil. When the lifter starts moving up, the plunger compresses the oil and the lifter pushes the pushrod to open the valve. This type of lifter uses the oil to keep the correct amount of valve lash. Since your car is not running, they won't be filled with oil. When the lifter starts to go up, their is a chance they can compress slightly and you won't get an accurate reading. Solid lifters are solid, do not have a plunger, and do not compress so you reading will be accurate.
Forgot about the light springs in the kit. I forgot those are for checking pushrod length. However, you still will need to buy 1 solid roller lifter. The solid lifter will not compress at all, so your dial indicator will get an accurate lift measurement. Just make sure you remove that solid lifter after your done because you don't won't to mix match hydraulic and solid lifters.
You don't need the socket and can use a wrench to turn the engine over. Without the socket, you'll have to put your balancer back to attach the degree wheel. If everything checks out and you don't need to adjust your chain, you still need to remove your balancer so you can put your timing cover back on, then reinstall your balancer. Its just much easier to do it with a crank socket.
Yes degree the cam with the timing chain your going to run. A single adjustable chain is fine.
So my truck is finally getting some work done, after 17 years, Oil pressure sensor went out and it’s located under the lower intake manifold. Have to...
2 weeks ago
FORUM SPONSORS
Collapse
Working...
X
We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted.
Tweet
Comment