Probably a tired question, but.....

[steddy]

I'm getting ready to set up a pair of '96 3.8L heads for a ZZP GT1 cam. I understand, on their site, that LS1 valve springs cause a harmonic that mimics a knock, setting off the knock sensor (I assume, also retarding the timing). The thing that drives me crazy is the cost between 105# beehive springs and new stock LS1 springs. Now, on a couple threads, I understand the PCM tune may take care of that. I will be getting a new PCM with a tune for various mods, so I guess, I'm just confused a bit. Can anyone help? Sure would be nice to get springs for 1/4 of the price to spend it on the lower end. Thanks.

[flamingchicken]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

anyone here will tell you, if its worth doing, then its worth doing right. if you can find what you need for cheaper, then buy it, but as for going for the cheaper springs that may cause a problem, i wouldnt do it.

[RadRacer]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

LS1 or LS6 springs?

[flamingchicken]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

i was guessing he meant ls6, cause they are a direct fit for our cars.

[ssms5411]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

I would go with Comp 105lb springs , ZZP modded retainers , viton guides, stock locks are fine or you can go with Comp locks. Also I would upgrade your pushrods since your camming Comp 5/16" or a little beefer Comp .105 pushrods. The modded retainers and Viton guides will give you a extra .050 clearance, which you might need for the GT1 cam.

[RadRacer]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

I would go with Comp 105lb springs , ZZP modded retainers , viton guides, stock locks are fine or you can go with Comp locks. Also I would upgrade your pushrods since your camming Comp 5/16" or a little beefer Comp .105 pushrods. The modded retainers and Viton guides will give you a extra .050 clearance, which you might need for the GT1 cam.

GT1 should have no clearance issues at all; I'm running a GT2 on all stock internals. In fact, you'd probably be fine running stock valvesprings if you want to skimp out on cash (not recommended, but might be possible). I've heard some say LS6 springs will eat up the dampener quick, while others haven't had a problem; 105's just seem like the logical way to go if you have the cash, but if not, then LS6's will be fine. I don't know where you're getting a ticking noise being fixed by a tune; maybe they're desensitizing the knock sensors or something so the engine doesn't see it as knock, but they're not gonna get rid of the noise with a tune.

[steddy]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

GT1 should have no clearance issues at all; I'm running a GT2 on all stock internals. In fact, you'd probably be fine running stock valvesprings if you want to skimp out on cash (not recommended, but might be possible). I've heard some say LS6 springs will eat up the dampener quick, while others haven't had a problem; 105's just seem like the logical way to go if you have the cash, but if not, then LS6's will be fine. I don't know where you're getting a ticking noise being fixed by a tune; maybe they're desensitizing the knock sensors or something so the engine doesn't see it as knock, but they're not gonna get rid of the noise with a tune.

Thank you, Rad. That's what I was thinking with it. I'll also be taking out the balance shaft and I'll be running a double roller, which should help things. With the machining that'll be done to the lower end, everything should compliment each other. Believe me, I don't want to "skimp", but there are things I want to be sure of in other areas and such. Yeah, I believe the desensitizing was what I was thinking. The money I'll save with the LS springs will make room for the new PCM, so I guess that'll work. Besides, this car's never really seen a strip, so that shouldn't be an issue. Thanks again, Rad and everybody for the input. I know which direction I'll take.

[screamin 99]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

if you want ls6 springs at a good price get them off ebay a guy sells sets of 16 brand new for $57 shipped.

[ssms5411]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

I would still do some ZZP steel modded retainers and Viton guides , just for the extra .050 clearance, since some say the stock rocker ratio is more than 1.6 , some say 1.66 and 1.7. Would just be for safety sake. I didn't do them when I first installed my VS cam, then when the 105lb springs,ZZP modded retainers and comp 5/16 pushrods were installed, I found 8 out of 12 lightweight pushrods were warped. After doing the springs , retainers and pushrods the car felt 10 times better, it was the warped pushrods giving me bad performance. So I would be safe when installing a cam, the GT1 says it is alright with stock(but if your there why not upgrade a little), but the GT2 says they recommend the upgrades. Me personally since your in there might as well do as much as you can so you don't have to worry later on. For the retainers and guides it is only like $75 more. Pushrods would be up to you but so far I like the Comp hardened pushrods. Poer is still there so I know they haven't warped.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

I went with manley retainers over the zzp ones...lighter, and cheaper in price... http://intense-racing.com/Merchant2/...egory_Code=HCV

intense also has the 105# springs for 124.99...honestly, you are probably better off going with 105# over ls6 springs...It is actually less of a spring rate so you are able to get more power...better spring in general...I was looking for soo many ways to save money while doing this cam swap... but I didnt go with the LS6 springs after I read what I did...I woulda saved soo much more to, if Meaty just listed his stuff like a week earlier lol...

I have also heard that for the retainers...every gram is equal to something like 14lbs on your valvetrain when it is moving...something to do with the force of moving it fast, stopping and changing direction...Kinda intersting...another reason I decided to go with the manleys...

[steddy]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

I went with manley retainers over the zzp ones...lighter, and cheaper in price... http://intense-racing.com/Merchant2/...egory_Code=HCV

intense also has the 105# springs for 124.99...honestly, you are probably better off going with 105# over ls6 springs...It is actually less of a spring rate so you are able to get more power...better spring in general...I was looking for soo many ways to save money while doing this cam swap... but I didnt go with the LS6 springs after I read what I did...I woulda saved soo much more to, if Meaty just listed his stuff like a week earlier lol...

I have also heard that for the retainers...every gram is equal to something like 14lbs on your valvetrain when it is moving...something to do with the force of moving it fast, stopping and changing direction...Kinda intersting...another reason I decided to go with the manleys...

I haven't really considered the lbs that are exchanged with the transfer of motion on the valve train (or as much as recently). It was pretty amazing about the "rubber band" effect with the piston rods and the flex that occurs with the crankshaft. That makes sense though, man. Lightening the valve train as much as possible should free up some extra spin. Now just determining how much before sacrificing strength. I managed to get a set of 918 blue stripes, so I'm researching whether I'll need spring cups or not.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

I haven't really considered the lbs that are exchanged with the transfer of motion on the valve train (or as much as recently). It was pretty amazing about the "rubber band" effect with the piston rods and the flex that occurs with the crankshaft. That makes sense though, man. Lightening the valve train as much as possible should free up some extra spin. Now just determining how much before sacrificing strength. I managed to get a set of 918 blue stripes, so I'm researching whether I'll need spring cups or not.

say what? spring cups? what is that?

[steddy]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

say what? spring cups? what is that?

Sorry, I hear tell of a "spacer" that you can install under the springs if they have seat pressure that's too high. Supposedly it gives it a larger area of pressure, thus lessening the load, or some BS. Could be a waste of time or more commonly, a myth.

'Course, then again, it would stand to reason that if they give a larger area, then their thickness would actually increase the load...hmmm. Man, I gotta get off this thing and go out for a while. There goes the mind at a billion miles an hour.

[LETZRIDE]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

lol...I have no idea what you are talking about...do you possibly mean modded retainers? They will give you a little bit more clearance for your cam?

that is what those manley retainers do for you as well...they will give you extra clearance, only they are lighter then the comp cams ones...

[steddy]

Re: Probably a tired question, but.....

lol...I have no idea what you are talking about...do you possibly mean modded retainers? They will give you a little bit more clearance for your cam?

that is what those manley retainers do for you as well...they will give you extra clearance, only they are lighter then the comp cams ones...

Sounds like I'll be going with the Manleys. I like the price and the page says that stock lock will work, in which case, if the stockers are ok, that'll be more money saved....well, allocated to the bottom end. Got the Keith Blacks ready for ordering. Thanks Letzride. Can't wait till shes up and running.