When the window won't go up or down - FirebirdV6.com/CamaroV6.com Message Board

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  • When the window won't go up or down

    If your F-car IV is high mileage–like mine is at 124,000 miles–it's not "if" but "when" the side window mechanism will fail.

    This is because there is a durability problem with the window sash channel which to which the side glass is attached. At either end of this channel are brackets to which the glass is attached with blind or "pop" rivets. The rear bracket also holds the axle for the roller which runs in the vertical window lift channel. When the widow is moving down and this roller gets to the bottom of the vertical channel it hits a stop. The force of the roller pushing against the stop causes the axle to be forced sideways and that causes the sash channel rear bracket to flex. Over a period of time, that flexing eventually cracks the bracket and the crack grows until either the axle falls out or the section of the rear bracket holding the axle breaks off. Once that happens the window lift fails.

    The pop rivets holding the glass to the sash channel are not the typical aluminum type with which most DIYs are familiar. They are made of steel and require a long-handled, commercial grade rivet "gun". In fact, at the assembly plant, the window glass was riveted to the channel brackets with an industrial-type, power-operated rivet gun. Most DIYs are not going to have access to a factory-type rivet gun and even the manually-operated, long-handled commercial guns are not going to be a tool to which most DIYs have access.

    I ran into this riveting problem with my 2001 Camaro when the driver side window mechanism quite working. I disassembled the door, noted that the rear sash channel bracket had broken. I found the axle at the bottom of the door. To repair or replace the sash channel, you have to remove the glass, first and to do that, you must drill out the rivets. Once you do that, you can replace the sash channel. Once the new sash channel in in place, the Factory Service Manual says to replace the rivets with new units from GM. Problem was, no way did I own a pop rivet gun which could install steel rivets.

    My solution? Oldskool. The '67-'81 Camaros and Firebirds used bolts and large "washer/nuts" rather than rivets to hold the glass to the sash channel. It was very simple to order three door glass sash mount stud assemblies (PN598) from Year One, discard the large washer nuts and replace them with smaller, conventional 1/4-in. flat washers and 1/4-in. self-locking nuts then use that set-up to attach the glass to the sash. That was much easier than trying to find a tool to install new blind rivets.

    Once I had the parts order from Year One, I had my driver side door back together in about an hour. The window mechanism works great. The sash mount studs can be found at https://www.yearone.com/Product/1967-81-camaro/sm598

  • #2
    Re: When the window won't go up or down

    Does this apply to both manual and electric operated windows - or just one or the other?
    .
    Robert - owner www.FirebirdV6.com/CamaroV6.com

    "Mid-life crisis? I'm way beyond that!"

    1996 Black Firebird GTxxxRam Air V6 w/ M5xxxwww.FirebirdGT.com

    Raven

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    • #3
      Re: When the window won't go up or down

      Originally posted by FirebirdGT View Post
      Does this apply to both manual and electric operated windows - or just one or the other?
      .
      I was working on a car with electric windows but...based on what I've learned over the years about how GM does things, I was thinking the sash channel is the same regardless. I hunted down my 93-02 F-car microfiche and looked up that channel. It's the same part for all F-cars, 93-02.

      What I'd do is pull the door panel, roll the window down half way and look at the metal of the rear bracket around and bellow the roller axle. If you see rust around where the axle goes into the bracket or you see any cracks, I'd replace the lower sash and buy those studs off a second gen car from YearOne to use with you reinstall the glass.

      Be advised that this problem is so common and left windows are used more than right that, even on the used market those sash channels are hard to find. I got mine from a place down south called "TA Creations USA
      Last edited by Hib Halverson; 12-30-2014, 10:24 PM. Reason: updated content

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