Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

[Camarorulz]

I originally took my car in to an unnamed body shop in spring 2007 to get the roof repainted because it was bubbling. They repainted it and after a few weeks it started to bubble again. I took it back in and they were nice, and repainted it again. Again, after about the same amount of time it started bubbling. I took the car in AGAIN. They repainted it (once again for free) AGAIN. They said they would have to strip it down all the way (I don't know why they didn't do this the FIRST two times), because some contaminants were coming up from under the paint to make it bubble. Ok...fine..but now it is bubbling once AGAIN. I'm losing count, I think once I bring it in again, it will be painted for the fourth time by this shop.

My questions are as follows:

1. Are these people obviously incompetent as I think they are?
2. Or...are Camaro roofs that damned hard to repaint?

[pace2006]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

Bubbling along the roof and sail panel is a common problem with these cars. It is caused by the adhesive under the roof/panel skin. There was a TSB released a few years ago about how to address this. But it was never made into a recall. Properly fixing it involves pulling the roof skin and using the proper adhesive.

Here's a link to the PDF and additional info from the How To section:

LS1tech Roof Bubble FAQ

[unvmyrs]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

ya know... this sounds like a good time to convert to t tops... hmm...?

[Mighty Thor]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

Yeah, I have very tiny bubbles too. I thought it was just my car. Is there anything done about this?

[whitdog54]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

Yeah, I have very tiny bubbles too. I thought it was just my car. Is there anything done about this?

Ive been trying for a awhile to have gm cover some of it.. I calll up and they say theyve never even heard of this problem(such BS). Im going to try again this summer

[pace2006]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

Ive been trying for a awhile to have gm cover some of it.. I calll up and they say theyve never even heard of this problem(such BS). Im going to try again this summer

Print off the TSB linked above and take it into them. They may not be able to cover the cost, but then they'll at least know the fix.

[Camarorulz]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

First, thank you pace.

Second, it looks like in order to fix this problem I need a new roof panel either way. If I bought a new t-top roof panel (as opposed to a hard top panel), would this make a t-top conversion easier? Or would they still have to make the cuts I've seen on all the how-to's for t-top conversions?

[Derek3.4]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

just t top it man, its a breeze. You'll love it

[blindeyed]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

just t top it man, its a breeze. You'll love it

You do realize that even the t-top models had this problem right?

[bwkmaro]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

ok from a body mans piont of view, there a couple of things and ive never heard the adheasive of being a prob. if u ask me that body shop sucks find a new one with sum credability and ull fix ur prob cause they r u using ****ty materials and or trying to go to fast and cutting corners. one thing is do u park ur car in a really sunny area if u do aviod it for a couple of weeks after it has been done. bubbles r cause by coats of paint/primer under the clear still releasing solvents but the clear is prob being baked on and not letting the coats underneath to breath. if i lived near u i could accually help u out but i dont the best thing i can say is tell ur story to another shop that has a good rep and get them to fix it. itll cost more but itll fix the prob permentally small price to pay for happieness lol

[blindeyed]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

ok from a body mans piont of view, there a couple of things and ive never heard the adheasive of being a prob. if u ask me that body shop sucks find a new one with sum credability and ull fix ur prob cause they r u using ****ty materials and or trying to go to fast and cutting corners. one thing is do u park ur car in a really sunny area if u do aviod it for a couple of weeks after it has been done. bubbles r cause by coats of paint/primer under the clear still releasing solvents but the clear is prob being baked on and not letting the coats underneath to breath. if i lived near u i could accually help u out but i dont the best thing i can say is tell ur story to another shop that has a good rep and get them to fix it. itll cost more but itll fix the prob permentally small price to pay for happieness lol

No, you're wrong. The shop is not the problem. pace2006 even posted a link to the TSB that addresses the problem being the adhesive. It's not the shops fault. In fact, if you ask me, the shop he went to has gone above and beyond to try to fix his problem.

Also, you're on the internet.. you're not texting or IM'ing someone. Please use a some proper grammar, it would benefit us all.

[PalmHarborBlkv6]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

I have a black 2000 Camaro with T tops. I had the same issue and new it was inherent
in the design so repainting would not do it. I had a guy put black sail cloth on that
section in back of the t tops. It looks fine and my problem is solved. It the same canvas used for convertible tops. It cost me $100 complete

[Mad Max]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

I didn't read the GM bulletin on this but - they invented epoxy in 1936 and have developed it considerably since. Automotive panels used to be attached with spot welds, then filled with lead. The next generation was spot welds followed by bondo (a registered trade mark BTW and is epoxy resin with different fillers such as: talc, aluminum powder, minute grains of plastic, etc.) and now epoxy polymers are used as adhesives to join body panels in alot of cars. Many body shops have changed from welding 1/4 panels on, to using 2 part epoxy adhesives. This is alot easier than welding BUT the epoxy out gasses when exposed to higher temperatures - as in strong sunlight = bubbles under paint. I saw a shop replace 2 rear 1/4 panels on a '68 Mustang using this method. Sure enough, I saw the car a few years later, and you could see where the adhesive was causing problems at the join line. It was barely noticeable, but it was there as a wave in the paint.
Another problem that was mentioned in the last thread - paint build up. When you put too much paint on a panel, the underlying paints may out gas also. It isn't an immediate problem, but as time goes by, the paint may check (alligator skin), peel or fade. Usually 2 paint jobs is the limit, then the paint has to be mechanically or chemically removed, and new paint applied.
Most car owners don't give a crap about small details like tiny bubbles. They don't even notice them in most cases.
The cure? Strip the area, clean out the epoxy, then spot weld or perimeter weld the panel. MAKE SURE THAT THE HEADLINER IS MOVED AWAY FROM THE INTERIOR OF THE PANEL - otherwise you will have a smoke show. There is a filler called Alumalite. It is a little more difficult to work with, but it is an aluminum powder filler and is preety mucho bullet proof, Gringo.
Ok, T tops? I had an old Trans Am (1978) with T tops, it SUCKED, no, it BLEW. They squeeked and rattled, I adjusted them many times, AND the weather strip was in good shape. In a hard wind driven rain, they leaked. Maybe this thing was a dinosaur with primitive Ts, but I wasn't impressed. I hope that Gen III, IV and V Camaro / Firebirds have improved.
A last thought, changing a roof panel isn't a 10 minute job, ya know? ($$$) If you have a donor car it's easier. Remember that you need the head liner, dome lamp assembly, you have to pull the glass = new windshield cause most of the time the Wsheild hatches.
I don't think the body shop that did the bubble job was useless, but if I were them, I would probably have cleaned out the entire area where the bubbles were and started with fresh high quality materials. :twak: Yo.

[PalmHarborBlkv6]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

I think my solution was simple, easy and effecitve

[Mad Max]

Re: Roof bubbling...body shop can't get it right...thoughts???

I think my solution was simple, easy and effecitve

True statement, although not everybody wants the look of sport topping (convertible roof material) on the panel. One other problem, if you keep the car for a long time, there may be rust problems. I can't remember how many vinyl roofs I removed from cars that had rust underneath the vinyl material. Don't get me wrong, this is a quick simple sollution, but quick doesn't mean forever.
Afterthoughts for the bubble repair - I would have left a heat lamp on the area over night before repainting. This would hopefully complete the chemical reaction (cure) of the materials (heat as a catalyst) and minimize/eliminate any future outgassing. Then I would refinish the area. I know this may seem labor intensive, but it would be the solution for the problem.