Torque Converter #239819 by: Precision Industries

[rednightrain]

Does anyone have this torque converter?

I guess it's a combination of P.I. aftermarket parts along with OEM parts that frees up 25 ponies.

Those that have it, do you like it? What's good, what's bad, and how much did you pay to have it installed?

[Only4U]

some more info ???

[rednightrain]

So, I'm guessing no one has this torque converter?

[Only4U]

well you have to be more specific...we don't know what the specs are just by the # and we aren't going to call PI just to ask them. why don't YOU give us the specs???

[Only4U]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> aftermarket parts along with OEM parts that frees up 25 ponies.
<hr></blockquote>

god man, it's a TORQUE converter--does NOT free up an hp. torque and hp are two COMPLETELY different things. it MAY be more efficient and you might can get down a little more hp to the ground than what stock was, but NOT anywhere near 25 hp.

[scottblack]

Evan to the rescue!

lol

Scott

[NBMA4V6]

a torque converter will never increase your HP. i dont care what converter, what brand, what efficiency.. they increase tq but use HP to create more stall..

[rednightrain]

All the information I had stated in my first post was from a man at P.I. who's name is Jack Sedory. I emailed him questions of:

1) Do you make a tq converter for V6 Camaros?
2) What is the difference between the stock converter and the one you may sell?
3) How much does it weigh?
4) What is the expected tq gain?
5) What is the expected hp gain?

He emailed me back saying they do make a converter for our cars for $695.95 that weighs 2 lbs heavier than stock. I pasted his response to my email....

"We are using the OEM front cover, the part that bolts to the flexplate,
other than that it has our reinforced, furnace brazed turbine and
furnace
brazed pump, sealed Torrington bearings, heavy duty stator along with
electronic balancing and pressure tested. It is perhaps 1 or 2 pounds
heavier than stock (28lbs) and as I mentioned before, it frees up horse
power, doesn't make any or make torque."

Now, the only reason I posted this here was to find out if his information is valid because it sounds like he's just trying to get me to buy his product.

Feel free to email him at: &lt;jack@converter.com&gt;

[Only4U]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>it frees up horse
power, doesn't make any or make torque. <hr></blockquote>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> they increase tq but use HP to create more stall <hr></blockquote>

negative on both.

torque converters merely displace your current torque at a much quicker rate (str, usually about 2.5 on an aftermarket converter) than stock does. torque is not theoretically increased at all, it stays the same.

if you dyno'd your car after putting an aftermarket converter is, you would see that both torque AND horsepower remain about the same, dependent of course on the specs of the converter and conditions during the dyno's.

jack from PI sounds like he doesn't know all that much. i've heard several really stupid comments from this guy through a board member before and he sounds like he doesn't really know what he's talking about. dunno, maybe dyno's lie and i don't know that much about converters, but i really think this guy is confused on the matter.

[Magnus]

That might be the verter I have.. I'll have to check.

[scottblack]

I love my PI converter, Jack is the man. Please don't listen to all the haters out there. He has COUNTLESS satisfied customers. You can't beat his service IMHO, and the product is outstanding. Just remember that you get what you pay for.

I am confused by his remarks though...definitely does not sound like something he would say. I've had quite a few phone conversations with him and that does not sound like him at all...

Scott

[Only4U]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Scott Black:
Just remember that you get what you pay for.

<hr></blockquote>

note: NOT an attempt to start a flame.

my edge converter was a whopping $300 less than a PI converter is, specs were theoretically better (higher str, 1 % lower efficiency) and it drives great. the advantages are far more than obvious, but i yet have no timeslip to back up the $400 converter built for over 500 rwhp and 500 rwtq. PI may be better known, but i think the "get what you pay for" is slightly an over stated comment. it's all about knowing the product, having a trusted warranty, hearing from others how the product worked, and MOST importantly, KNOWING that whoever is selling your converter knows their stuff for sure--and jack at PI, regardless of how much he may really know, has not shown himself $710-for-a-freaking-converter worthy to me at all. i would not have bought a converter from him. it's not always necessarily about price whatsoever. is a 15 grand 98 ls1 TA "worse" than a 27 grand 02 ls1 TA? it may have more miles on it, but who says that makes a $14000 difference. not a great example, but you get my drift. don't base things on their price. just my .02 cents.

[HAZ-Matt]

Ok so there is some crazziness goin on in this thread.

Let's review some concepts... I'm going to keep this simple...

Stall: Basically the rpm that the converter "slip" to... You can think of this as meaning that it will allow the engine to operate at this RPM until the transmission catches up. The rated stall comes from testing the converter on a machine with a set amount of torque, that using a breaking force on the converter. That is not important for now.

STR: Basically the torque multiplication. If it is 2.5 than that means that the torque from the engine is multiplied by a factor of 2.5 before it is transmitted to the transmission. But a converter only sees it's rated STR if the tranny isn't moving, which means that your wheels can't be moving. If you change converters to one with a different STR you will in fact change the amount of torque you put to the wheels. And since HP and torque are related by the equation

HP = Torque x RPM / 5252

the horsepower at the wheels is increased.

Efficiency: Ok this number only applies at the rated stall. It will drop off at rpms higher than the rated stall. This is a result of the slipping that the torque converter allows and the STR.

Few problems I think people are having are a result of thinking of a torque converter whose design is regulated by these three variables. You need to think of the converter as what it is... a fluid coupling that consists of an impeller and a turbine (there are other parts... but they aren't too important for this discussion). All of the parameters listed above are simply a result of the diameter of the coupling along with the pitch of the blades of the turbine and impeller. It's not like they throw the "STR 2.5" switch or "97% efficiency" switch inside the converter. The point of this is that...the coupling acts like a lower gear when it slips... basically. That means that you get a little more mechanical advantage, and that is where the torque multiplication comes from.

An aftermarket converter will put more horsepower to the wheels because it puts more torque to the wheels. That is... when it is slipping. When it is locked up, you do not see any torque multiplication, and so when you dyno with the converter locked, you will not see a gain.

EDIT: If you think anything is wrong above, go ahead and correct it [img]smile.gif[/img] I forgot the real point of this... you cannot create horsepower with a torque converter. You can reduce drivetrain loss (while the converter is unlocked) with a converter of higher efficiency, and you do in fact multiply torque. The torque multiplication is analogous to putting lower gears in the back. You haven't increased the power (or the torque) of the engine, yet the torque at the wheels is greater.

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: HAZ-Matt ]</p>

[SLOWBRAEATER]

No affense but jack does know what hes talking about, you see only4u, what you know about converters comes from the converter sites you read on and copy and paste what you read on there. Jack knows about converters from actually working on them and building them, you could only wish to know what that guy knows about converters.

[ravenp]

No 'Affense' to you either(what the heck is affense anyways?), but Evan is trying to help us...you are not, so whom do you think we are going to listen to regarding converters?

How about showing some respect and posting to help, not put down? While you may not agree with what he's saying, you cannot argue that it contributed to a good discussion on torque converters. It did not detract at all.

So how about joining this community rather than trying to tear it down? :rolleyes:

thanks ;)