tranny clutch problem...

[Andy]

Well I knew it had to happen some time,

The other day I was crusin down the highway and I saw an ss. I started playing around and then I got a jump on him (wasnt really fair) so I started spraying and it was pretty much me golden with a friend in a ta pulling up quick. After I got up to about 100 I and the ta was blowing by I cut it off and and started to put it in fifth and just coast down to the speed limit. As I start to let the clutch out with the tranny in fifth I hear a loud pop sound coming from the belhousing area. I imediatley take it out of gear and coast in nuetral.

As I get closer to the side of the road I try putting it into gear and it wont take a single one. I coast to a parking lot. I turn of the car and let it sit while I think.

I ended up towing the car home and it now sits there. With the car off I can place it in gear no problem and ease out on the clutch and drive it like normal. It does make some wierd noises though. If I take it out of gear at any time when the engine is going I cannot get it back into gear. Clutch pedal also seems a little tougher than normal also.

Any suggestions or comments? Anybody seen this or heard of this before? Is it tranny? Have the synchros gone out completely? Is the clutch gone?

[Skinny]

If the pop came from the bellhousing area, it could be the throwout bearing or slave cylinder. I kinda doubt it would be the slave if the pedal is stiffer. I guess it could also be one of the teeth on the pressure plate or something. Lift your car and use a flashlight to look at the pressure plate and throwout bearing. You can get a pretty good look at them if you peek through the hole in the bellhousing where the hydraulic lines go through. If you look towards the front of the car, you should see a spring, the throwout bearing, then the pressure plate. See if any teeth are missing from the plate, you can rotate it by turning the flywheel. There's a slot in the bottom of the bellhousing where you can push on the teeth of the flywheel with a screwdriver or something. You might also want to take the inspection plate off the front (engine side) of the bellhousing ans look through there towards the back. Make sure there are no pieces laying around in the bottom of the bellhousing.

If everything looks ok there, you may have a problem with the tranny synchros or what-not. An area I have yet to dive into.

[Andy]

Thanks beast,

the noise came from right at the front of the tranny and the end of the bellhousing. I wouldnt rule out the clutch but I have been thinking it over. If I was able to put in gear easily with the car off and the start it and drive it pretty much normally, wouldnt that almost point to the tranny synchros?

I know a little more about the tranny than I do the clutch. What parts make up the clutch system and what do they do? Quick and dirty.

The car is at a friends so I cant just run down there and check it. I am planning on going thursday or friday.

[Andy]

how much does it cost to have a tranny rebuilt? how hard is it for a pretty technical person to buy a tranny rebuild kit and do it him/herself?

[F* Bodies hit the roof]

Did it stink very bad after racing that car?...I've burned my clutch before on a car I had before my Firebird and it would still drive but accelerate by itself without me hitting the gas. The smell of burning a clutch is like driving behind one of those asphalt or tar trucks...

[Skinny]

Sorry about the late reply.

The clutch is essentially 2 parts. The pressure plate and the clutch disk/pad/etc. The pressure plate bolts right on the the flywheel, and turns with it. The pad has teeth in the center so the input shaft from the tranny can slide through it. If the pad turns, so does the input shaft, which will turn the driveshaft if the tranny is in gear.

Two things apart from the clutch are the throwout bearing and the hydraulic setup (master and slave cylinder). When you push the clutch pedal in, the pedal pushes a plunger in the master cylinder (right on the other side of the firewall from the pedal). The hydraulic fluid forced down the steel braided line to the slave cylinder, which pushes the throwout bearing forward into the teeth on the pressure plate.

The back side of the pressure plate has a solid slate of metal that presses on the clutch pad when the teeth are all the way out, holding the pad firmly against the flywheel. As long as the teeth on the pressure plate are all the way out, the clutch pad and input shaft will turn with the flywheel.

Now, when the pedal is pushed in, the throwout bearing presses the teeth in and relieves the pressure from the clutch pad. This allows the flywheel to turn (as it always does, whether moving or not) without the pad (and input shaft) turning with it.

I guess I should mention that I learned all of this by taking the transmission off, changing the clutch and slave cylinder and watching out everything works. This is my understanding of it, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I got the basics right.

[Andy]

thanks 96Beast, now that I kinda know how it works maybe I can explain whats going on a little better.

when I put the car in gear and press the clutch it starts like normal. As soon as I start to let out on the clutch to drive it, it makes a horrible grinding sound. Its actually more like a nasty rotating sound. Again it sounds like the front of the tranny/back of the clutch assy. Once I pull it out of gear and place it into neutral, let out on the clutch and let the car just idle, it continues that noise for a second or two and then it goes away.

f-bodie****..., I think for the most part that the clutch is still semi functional since I can engage the tranny and accelerate just as I could before. It doesnt try and take off on its own or anything like that.

[Skinny]

I can only guess two things here. Either something broke in the bellhousing and is bouncing around in there, or it's a tranny/synchro problem. You need to get that tranny off and take a look.

[Andy]

so will I have to take the tranny apart to find if I busted some synchros? I am pulling it saturday morning. I am gonna pull some other stuff too just to inspect the car. Any suggestions on what to look for?

[Skinny]

When you take the tranny off you'll see if part of the clutch setup is broken apart. Remember that you'll have to remove the tranny and the bellhousing together. You can't just take the tranny out of the bellhousing because the slave cylinder and throwout bearing will hold them together. If there's nothing broken or loose in the bellhousing, the synchros in the tranny is probably where you'll need to look.

[Andy]

Well I found the problem today...

I took my car to the doctors office (aka my friends house where I towed it to last weekend) and we began to dive into the problem area. http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~andrew80/temp/docOffice1.JPG and http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~andrew80/temp/docOffice2.JPG It looks like the tranny was ok. It might need to be rebuilt just to replace the seals and such. It wouldnt hurt since it is already out. After testing out the tranny in the street, http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~andrew80/temp/trannytest.JPG , we moved on to the clutch. And wouldnt you know just as beast said,"When you take the clutch off you should see something in there." Thats what was making the horible noise. The clutch disc was messed up. One of the springs had busted loose. http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~andrew80/temp/clutch1.JPG , http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~andrew80/temp/clutch2.JPG , and http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~andrew80/temp/clutch3.JPG So it looks like its time for a new clutch.

[Skinny]

Hehe. Yep, that'll definately cause a problem. Glad it was something simple like the clutch. If you get a new clutch and it doesn't come with the throw out bearing (like the centerforce) I would suggest saving the $60 or $70 they'll ask you for the a new one, and go to http://www.gmpartsdirect.com and get a new slave cylinder which will come with the very same throwout bearing already attached. I got mine for $60, but I just checked it and it seems that they've upped the price to $81. See if it will cost you any extra for that TOB, and it might be worth it to just go ahead and get the whole slave at $81.

BTW: I love the street test! [img]graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

[Andy]

they dont list a slave cylinder for my car? where exactly did you get yours? what was the part number?

[-red97rum-]

I kind of went through the same thing. I smashed 3rd gear when I was racing and the tranny made an awful grinding and clunking. Probably broken pieces getting jambed up inside. But I had no cash so I drove it with no 3rd gear for about 2 weeks. I got esamates from 1200$ to 1800$ dollars to have it rebuilt. Eventuall after about two weeks, everything went. The tranny locked up. I got a tranny out of a 98 in the junkyard my mom's friend works at for 800$ and I work 6 days a week so I had them install all together with tranny rebuilt clutch T.O.B. it cost 1200$ That was the second time I broke 3rd. The first time the tranny did the same thing and I was 600 miles out of warrenty. Chevy charges about 2200-2300$$$!! For a brand new one. They wouldn't cover it so I wrote a letter to their coorperate office and it took about a week but they took my car in and fixed it. However they made me pay for labor, I'm pretty sure that was around 450$ So try to ***** at chevy and tell them you are dissapointed with their products and can't believe a 4yr old car would break like that lay it on really thick. If you havn't had it in there too many times I'd say your odds are pretty good to get at least some kind of discount. Well who knows but it's worth a try. The second time i smashed 3rd they basically told me Hell No. So that's when I resorted to the junkyard. But hey my car runs beautifully (knock on wood) and my motor, tranny, and rearend are out of the junkyard. I have a 97 pick a part car. looks good though. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Skinny]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Andy:
they dont list a slave cylinder for my car? where exactly did you get yours? what was the part number?<hr></blockquote>

Sorry, forgot that gmpartsdirect never lists any parts through the search feature. At least I've never found anything that way. The part number will work, though. It's 15046288.

Most dealers will stock them too. When I got mine the GM List was $100, which is what the dealer wanted for it. Now the list has jumped to $135, but you might want to call a local dealer and check.