Need an opinion on 2 different mods for automatics

[CockyV6]

Ok here it is. I am surfing around on Tbyrne's web site ( Cheap plug for our sponsors. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] Will be ordering from you soon Tom! ) and I notice 2 diffrent things for automatic transmission's. The first is the B&M Shift Plus which lets me change the settings as I drive [img]graemlins/omg.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] VERY COOL! THe second is the Trans Go Shift Kit of which I honestly know nothing about [img]graemlins/crybaby.gif[/img] . So I come to you all who look in this forum and thow myself on youre mercy. Please help me with my decision, I would appreiceate ANY insite into either of the two kits and the pros and cons of each. Shoot if I thought it would help anything I would go so far as to get both.
Oh and just for the record so I dont look like a total moron I have a 97 Firebird with the 4 speed automatic and 3:08 gears.

P.S. Tbyrne (Tom) if you read this PLEASE chime in if you have any info.
Thanks all,
Shawn

[ June 23, 2002: Message edited by: DC1_01 ]</p>

[Camaro15]

can someone please help cuase i am also wondering about this, also would these work with my 94 A4?

[12secondv6]

Well, I can shed some light on this:
b&m shift plus: increases tranny line pressure, stage 1 and 2, easy to install, I've had it, I've heard that over time (1 year) it can completely destroy your tranny due to too much internal; tranny line pressure.
I had it and hated it so tossed it.
Transgo: I was in an ls1 maro before and after it. I personally didn't like it. shift kits are much better though. the shifts are firmer, more positive and due to this sometimes the tranny can run slightly cooler.
I started out with a b&m shift kit (not shift plus) with the internals of my tranny and now have a completely modified tranny.
trans go is better than shift plus.
I prefer b&m shift kit for $40 from summit

[strange_trp]

both work by making the friction components inside your transmission slam together harder than they were designed to, which could result in shorter trans life. i would shorten recommended trans service interval if using either kit to reduce potential harm.

both do what they claim. they give you firmer shifts. the b&m lets you do this at the press of a button. with the transgo you're stuck with firm shifts. i've seen that people seem to prefer the feel of the transgo shift, however.
both give firm shifts by increasing trans fluid pressure. they just do it in different ways.

the b&m changes the pulse width modulation of the pressure control solenoid. the transgo mechanically alters hydraulic fluid flow. end result is the same.

[ June 23, 2002: Message edited by: strange_trp ]</p>

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by strange_trp:
both work by making the friction components inside your transmission slam together harder than they were designed to, which could result in shorter trans life. i would shorten recommended trans service interval if using either kit to reduce potential harm.

both do what they claim. they give you firmer shifts. the b&m lets you do this at the press of a button. with the transgo you're stuck with firm shifts. i've seen that people seem to prefer the feel of the transgo shift, however.
both give firm shifts by increasing trans fluid pressure. they just do it in different ways.

the b&m changes the pulse width modulation of the pressure control solenoid. the transgo mechanically alters hydraulic fluid flow. end result is the same.

[ June 23, 2002: Message edited by: strange_trp ]<hr></blockquote>

Do you have any trans rebuilding experience? Did you notice the "slamming" this after you rebuild it for the second time around?

[strange_trp]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dom:

Do you have any trans rebuilding experience? Did you notice the "slamming" this after you rebuild it for the second time around?<hr></blockquote>

yes i have rebuilt some trans. manual as well as automatic. TH350, 700R4, and 4L60E, not to mention 4T60E (transaxle), are some of the GM automatics i've rebuilt. i have observed chunks of clutch disc friction lining in the pan on cars that had shift kits installed. i have plenty of professional experience to back my statement. that's what a firm shift comes from, applying clutch packs and bands with more pressure, more suddenly. i would call this "slamming." you would too if you saw some of these clutch discs out of an "abused" transmission.

not trying to be rude or anything, but if you'll go to the ase website, you'll find that certification in auto trans is necessary for master tech certification. :D

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

Well I corresponded with some trans rebuilders on this subject of Trans Go shift kits. Both agree that they don't fix the huge problems 4L60Es have, but they do help some and are not bad for it. One guy runs "Pro Build Automatics" another has spent 25 years as a professional trans builder. He is NIASE Master Certified as an Auto Technician and has been involved with TransGo Since 1987.

I don't know why Gil Younger get's such a bad rep with his products. I guess it's not an end all be all. One can make a shift kit on it's own. Which ever way you go there are going to be firmer shifts somehow.

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

Since you rebuild them I have some questions for you. What tools will I need to buy to rebuild a 4L60E? And where do I buy them from?

[strange_trp]

matco, mac, snap-on all have the specialty tools needed to do things like compress clutch pack springs for disassembly and seat shaft seals.

[strange_trp]

every professional will have their own opinions about the use of shift kits, just like every physician has their own professional opinion of things like the harmfulness of social drinking or recreational drug use. experts do disagree. that does not mean that one is right and another is wrong.

edit: anyway, i'm not sure of the particualr situation, but if these guys are using shift kits to solve problems in stock transmissions, i would hardly call them professionals, and i certainly would not call this type of repair legitimate.
i have seen the problems resulting from shifts that are too firm and they are not pretty. personally i will not put a shift kit on my vehicle. but that's just me. you are free to do whatever you want to your vehicle. i'm just providing information, that's all.

[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: strange_trp ]</p>

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

As I said, 4L60Es have many shortcomings and I would not just install a shift kit by itself. If someone installed a hard core shift kit without doing anything else then I doubt it would work to well. There are many types of shift kits too. Superior, Trans go, etc. I wouldn't just generalize and call a shift kit bad. In conjunction with other upgrade parts, it can help. If used without upgrading other parts, it can hurt. I plan on building up the trans. I have a long list of parts I'm going to upgrade. There are people running 11s that tell me not to touch shift kits, and there are people also running 11s that swear by the shift kit they have. Bottom line, they both upgraded the other transmission components and their transmissions last a long time under alot of power.

Can you help me out with exact names of those tools? I did search snap on, but there is no way in finding those tools unless one knows the name. And I also don't want to buy all the tools that they have listed under transmission. I probably don't need all of them. Can you just list the ones I really need? Thanks.

[strange_trp]

when upgrading your transmission, be sure to use heavy duty clutch friction discs. you'll also want to use heavy duty bands. this still will not guarantee a leak from an internal leaking seal due to the higher line pressures necessary for firmer shifts. you may want to also change spring rate in servos and accumulators to accomodate the pressure change caused by the shift kit.

as far as tool names... i don't have a snapon or mac etc catalog handy. let me list for you what GM says you need to rebuild the trans along with some parts numbers. i'm sure a dealer parts department could get these special service tools for you even if you cant get them on the mac truck.
GM says you need:
J21366 converter holding strap
J21426 case extension oil seal installer (necessary)
j36850 trans assy lube. vaseline works. necessary.
J29714-A servo cover depressor. you can improvise.
Tech2 scan tool. a must for diag, you may be able to get by without it... i'd recommend having acces to the tech2 though for interactive testing and verification of repairs.
J21867 pressure gauge set. necessary for confirming repairs and diagnosis.
J22269-01 piston compressor. necessary.
J25025-B guide pin set. makes things much easier. i would say necessary.
J28458 Power piston seal protector and diaphragm retainer installer. necessary.
J33037 2-4 band apply pin tool. highly recommended.
J38417 plastic speed sensor removal and install kit. recommended to keep from breaking speed sensor.
J41364-A neutral position adjustment tool.
3920 Digital Volt-Ohm Meter. necessary.

of course, other things are necessary... a good collection of hand tools. a micrometer, straightedge, feeler gauges, snap-ring pliers (int and ext), torque wrench, emery cloth, etc.
you may also need selective washer and shim set to set certain clearances. (i cannot go into detail of auto trans rebuild here in a short amout of space/time.)

your most useful tool will be a detailed SERVICE MANUAL that has specific procedures and sequences as well as specifications for torque, clearances, etc.

edit : you're doing this the right way, upgrading the internal components of your trans to withstand the demands of a shift kit. so many do not do this at the risk of shortening the trans's life.

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: strange_trp ]</p>

[DominusEtDeusNatus]

I do have a service manual and I do have alot of those part numbers. You listed way less numbers then I have so that helps alot. I guess I'll order on a need to have basis as I go along.

I do have a shift kit, but that might come out. As long as I don't get sloppy shifts with a high stall converter, I'll be happy.

I have plenty of upgrade parts like frictions and bands.

Next time I'll probably have specific questions. Thanks alot.

[spootydinkcamaro94]

I have a B&M Shift Plus, been in the car for a long time now (but not yet a year) and tranny is fine.

[strange_trp]

no prob dom. always happy to help [img]smile.gif[/img]

i am glad you mentioned that you would be putting in stronger components if you were going with a shift kit. when one goes this route, i see no problem at all with many of the kits that are available.

its just that too many people on here that are driving fbods with like 75k miles on the original trans, that might have been serviced maybe once, think that you can just slap a transgo in it and be done with it. then they wonder why 25k miles later their car will run but it wont go anywhere...

i guess you could say that i don't really have a problem with the shift kits themselves, just the way they're marketed/installed/maintained.

let me know if you need any more info.