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I used the forum's search feature to look for posts on six-speed conversions for V6 F-car and nowhere on this site has a post ever been made about that.
I've got an 01 with a five speed and a 3.23 axle.
I'm thinking about a T56 out of a Z28 with a 4.10 axle
then you need a
-custom input shaft
-Custom bellhousing/or a custom adapter plate
-possible custom driveshaft
-Possible custom Transmission cross member(though a v8 one might work)
-I assume you could still use a regular clutch.
Either way could see it running to $2k or more to do it assuming you can even get that stuff made and put together and we didn't miss anything.
Or you can just get a built T5 for like $1k and be fine.
I used the forum's search feature to look for posts on six-speed conversions for V6 F-car and nowhere on this site has a post ever been made about that.
"hockeyman"...I apologize for offending you. That I, who has made a mere 41 posts, made the foolish mistake of forgetting what I've posted in the past, is unforgiveable and understandably an annoyance to a veteran forum member and seeming V6 F-car expert such as yourself .
Ok.
Done with sarcasm.
Before I made the first post on this thread, I used the FirebirdV6.com/CamaroV6.com search feature to look for T56 six-speed related posts and came up with very little. Maybe the search function was not working properly that day or my entering keywords <six speed> was inadequate, but for whatever reason, I neither remembered that I'd posted back in September about the same subject nor did I find that September thread. Admittedly, a dumb mistake but certainly not one I worry about much.
Other than responses from "hockeyman'" and "xcdarrel17," I did find read interesting posts in both these threads.
The most interesting was:
Originally posted by DAS BOOT
-custom input shaft
DAS BOOT, were you talking about an input shaft which must be of a different length or are you saying that the T5 diameter and spline count is different than that of a T56 input shaft or...maybe both?
The clutch housing and adapter plate issues, at this point, appear to be a challenge but that challenge is not insurmountable. I've actually researched some of this myself--though not, yet, to the depth of others here. A couple of months ago I talked to Red Roberts, who's behind most of the engineering in products sold by McLeod Industries. He said that McLeod may already have an adapter plate, bellhousing and most importantly an extended pilot bushing/bearing assy. available. I plan on following up with Red about these items, soon. If he has all that stuff, the distance between the bellhousing mount on the motor and clutch housing mounting pad on the front of the trans is not a problem.
The driveshaft is easy. If the output yoke ends up occupying the same location in space as does that of the T5, it's just a case of changing the front yoke and maybe the u-joint on the car's existing, aftermarket, aluminum shaft. If the six-speed ends-up needing a shorter shaft, that's easy, too---I just take my existing shaft back to my driveshaft vendor, Inland Driveline Service, and have him shorten it.
The clutch is easy. McLeod makes a good hi-po clutch in the V6 diameter and I'd retain the V6 pressure plate.
I think the trans x-member is might be fairly easy to fix, too, mainly because it's fab'ed-up from steel stampings. Any decent metal fabricator ought to be make a new one, if necessary. It might even be that a V8/T56 crossmember would work, either as is or with slight mods.
As for the torque arm issues, they're moot because the car already has a Global West Trac-Link assembly on it. The GW Trac-Link does not depend on attaching to the back of the trans and Global West has other variants of that part to fit V8s w. six-speeds.
Ok, now---why a six-speed conversion?
Well, first--because it's appearently not been done and I like challenges. The economics of this are not the prime consideration---they seldom are for project vehicles.
Second, when you start looking at the final drive ratios, T5 vs T56, you see that the six-speed fills the big void the T5 has between first and second gears. Obviously, this is not an issue with a stock or near stock engine, but with one modified a far amount such that its torque curve has become more "peaky," having extra ratios between the first gear and fourth gear might be a performance enhancement.
For example, the 5spd/3.23 axle combination has a final drive, in first, of 12.11:1 and a final drive, in third, of 4.55. A six-speed/4.56 axle combination has first-gear, final drive near the same, at 12.13, but a final drive, in fourth, of 4.56. Basically, you add a gear and the final drives of 2nd (8.12) and 3rd (5.93) now more evenly-split the big gap between the five-speed's 1st (12.13) and third (4.55) which is occupied solely by 2nd (7.07).
This might pay off with noticeably quicker acceleration times, even if you add e.t. for an extra shift, because it makes better use of the engine's torque, that is: with the five speed, you run the motor to your shift point in first, go to second and see a huge drop in engine speed. With the six-speed, the drop would be not near as much. For a modified engine, which might have not only a more narrow torque band but a much higher (both in amount of torque and the rpm at which it occurs) torque peak, this could be a big plus.
Obviously, to make this work, you must address the difference in first gear ratios, 3.75 (T5) vs. 2.97 (aftermarket T56) or 2.66 (OE F-car/Y-car T56) and you do that with an axle ratio change, either 4.10 or 4.56. In practice, I might even try a 3.73 (or an as-yet unobtanium 3.90) because our project car engine makes enough additional torque than stock, such that a 12.13 final may be unnecessary.
The third reason for this T56 swap idea is durabilty. The so-called "World Class T5" was designed back in the mid-80s for 305 cuin 3rd Gen F-cars and 5.0 Mustangs which all had around 200-220hp or so. With our project car we're already at the 260 at-the-flywheel level on the motor and 355 on a mild shot of nitrous oxide and 400hp would be easy, I think.
(SIDEBAR: Ok, some of you scoff at our power numbers as being weak, but just remember--we're making that power with a cat, mufflers, easily passing the California Smog Check without disabling fault codes in the ECM cal, good driveablity, reasonable fuel economy and durability close to O.E. If we were willing, at this point, to compromise any of those attributes; obviously we could make a whole lot more power.)
Clearly, with the T5, a motor like that and Goodyear F1 Supercar tires on the back, the trans is on borrowed time. A much-more-robust, six-speed might not be as bad a business case as some here think.
I'm going to continue to explore the idea.
In the meantime, those who have been following Camaro Performers Magazine "Project Fast Victor Six" will be interested to know that the final part of that six-part series will publish in the January 2007 issue of Camaro Performers which goes on-sale in mid-December. There is a slim chance (depends mostly on reader input) we might come back sometime in late '07 with "Part 7" but that's undecided at this point.
Of late, I've been negociating with a new, non-forum, Camaro web site which is still in the construction stage to post a lengthened, rewritten/re-edited version of all that project content. As of yesterday, that negociation was sucessful---at least in part. The owners of www.camarohomepage.com have agreed to post the first two installments of the series. If the response meets their expectations, they'll post the rest of it.
www.camarohomepage will go live sometime in the next 30 days with Part 1 of the revised V6 Camaro project series being posted shortly after that.
The web version of the series will probably shrink to four parts, will have some now-redundant material eliminated, have some new material added and will cover some aspects of the project with more detail and imagery.
When Pt 1 of the web version of the series goes up, I'll post the link, here.
G-force t5 rebuild. If you build it... it will run...
00\' firebird v6 5spd<br />201rwhp ---- 230 rwtq<br />\"Everyday I grow stronger...and further from you.\"<br />WARNING: Do not take any of my comments seriously unless they are technical in nature and then only at your own risk
00\' firebird v6 5spd<br />201rwhp ---- 230 rwtq<br />\"Everyday I grow stronger...and further from you.\"<br />WARNING: Do not take any of my comments seriously unless they are technical in nature and then only at your own risk
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