My system, how do you think it will sound

[gonein60]

I wanted to keep the basic speaker layout of the monsoon but the new tweeters will not fit, so I'm going to have to in essence make the front into a component type setup. As for the pioneers, has anyone ever used this particular model? I think what I'll do is try out the pioneers and see how they sound, if they are good I'll keep them, if not I'll send them back. Don't know why you say pyle drivers suck, because I have a pair that I have had in my house since i was 10 years old and they still work perfectly and sound great so, maybe their newer stuff sucks now. Only thing i am for sure of right now is the fact that the Alpine D857's are a very very good sounding head unit.

Question: Should the 6.5's not distort at all even when the radio is turned all the way up, if this is the case I will know immediately if they are any good, because as of yet I hven't had any speakers in my car that didn't although they were cheap ones.

[massivefirebird]

Well, you asked and I answered. I and friends have had experience with Pioneer speakers.

I don't think of Pioneer as "Good Quality Sound." I know for a fact that if I planned on turning my radio all the way up on my old Pioneer's, I would have to turn the bass on my HU all the way down, and it'd still distort. If you like them then go for it, that's cool. My opinion is just that, an opinion... do what you feel! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Brian Dieckman]

"The BEST" car (SQ) stereo is (and has been for some time) Earl Zoumsers' BMW. He has Black & White point source coaxials up front in the dash, and two 8" subs in the fenders up front. ALL SPEAKERS UP FRONT. (all driven by tube amps by the way)

This "rear fill" crap is a REALLY BAD idea if your sub is back there. (and your goal is top quality SQ) Bass might be omnidirectional (NOT non-directional like most people think) but it's still locatable. So if there's bass coming from behind you, and full range coming from behind you, guess what? Your sound stage is behind you.

I'm not saying this guy should try that, he obviously doesn't have the resources to build a top quality SQ system, but who does? I just wanted to clear up the "sound stage" debate.

Don't get pissed off at me if you disagree. Call a real installer, like the Fishman. (Dave Rivierra) He'll tell you the same.

[EyeOutThere]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zlightning:
Okay enough with this up front only crap. I don't understand your logic in this thinking. Look at all the best and I mean best sound setups and where are they? Throughout the whole damn car. I am not trying to flame. Sorry if I piss anyone off but it is just not logical.<hr></blockquote>

You are very wrong.

You would be better off ditching all of the pioneer stuff and buying a set of quality components speakers.

And your setup has way to many tweeters. It will require a lot of tuning to get it to sound right. If you do use all of those tweeters, clump them all together and PUT THEM UP FRONT. (two in each side).

If you do go with rear speakers, they should only be there to increase the overall volume of your system, and should only play mid or mid-base frequencies. They will not help your overall sound quality. (in fact it hill hurt it)

The basic rule for accurate sound reproduction is to have as few drivers as possible, and to have them as close together as possible (for each channel). The most accurate speakers in the world only utilize one or two driver types (i.e. headphones) (frequency response is a different issue).
-Never mix 6.5” and 5” speakers, use the same 6.5” or 5” driver throughout your car.
-Never mix different size/type tweeters and avoid placing them anywhere but upfront.

CD audio is recorded in two channels, left and right. Thus there is no need for a rear stage. Don’t invest in a rear sound stage unless you plan on getting a DTS or DD 5.1 decoder. Which would only be utilized while watching movies or playing a DTS or DD audio tracks (which are virtually non-existent).

Don’t worry, all of us had a time when we didn't know about the "Less is more theory".

[gonein60]

My plan is a DVD player and DTS which is why I'm trying to do as close to a home layout as possible so that I can have that full surround sound as I do at home. I'm not directing more sound in the rear than the front. I'll have only 5 speakers in the rear, one of which is a sub and 6 in the front and mid section. The reason I mixed up pioneers with sony is because they will be running off of completely different power sources and I don't plan on using the sonys for much more than filling in sound. Now as for too many tweeters, I only have four, which is the same number the monsoon system came with. 2 will be in the rear panels and the other 2 will be mounted up front somewhere. I can understand the debate over 3 way speakers and tweeters so I may not use the 2 in the front due to too many high range frequencies. Like I said guys I'm not an expert and don't want to compete with the car, but I also don't want to waste the 1K I've already spent either. So what I think I will do is experiment, first with whether or not the speakers are any good, and then with the speaker layout. The sound must be perfectly balanced so later on my surround will sound right, I would prefer my CD's sound a little off than to have my DVD's be a little off. Thanks for the input guys I've taken it all to heart and will try to find the best balance between front sound and surround sound. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[DrMilhouse]

just to let you know...

I have been looking in to the DD 5.1 processor from Alpine to add to my car. I found one at a good price and then I spoke with a few installers who have installed them. They said it was a waste. 5.1 separates all of the sounds to the correct speakers for your environment. In your car, there's little space that can be made. Since the distance from each speaker to the other is only about 4 - 5 feet in your car, most peoples ears are not going to be able to really separate where the center channel and fron left and right channels are. Even if they can, it's something you have to listen for, what fun is a movie you have to actively listen to in order to feel that you're "surrouneded". Also a good EQ will have time correction and you can make that time incorrect front to rear and you'll get better sounding surround sound than you would from DD 5.1 at least in a camaro. It might be a little different in an SUV where there is more room for the sounds to be separated.

On the dear old dad note that I'm horrible for doing on these boards... You came here and you asked for opinions, you got the opinions and everyone has agreed that you're going the wrong way about this. Instead of avoiding the hassle later which is what it appeared you wanted to do, you've only defended and defended your purchase. If you want to debate, debate is fun, but it shouldn't be under the mask of "help me out with something" - particularly when you ask for help with SQ. All of us have been there with low grade stuff and all of us have since then spent the extra money to do it right. The equipment you listed is going to be a very slight upgrade from the Monsoon.

I'm a firm disbeliever that rear fill is not at least somewhat important. So I would never come and ask around about that. If I want to know what my car will sound like with out rear speakers, I'll fade them to the front so there is no rear speaker fill. I've done it, I don't like it. It sounds like something is missing. I don't like to be flamed and I don't like to argue, so I hardly ever make that point. I, along with most of the people that have responded here (if not all) have been around this industry for a while - if not for livelyhood then for a fun expensive hobby. We're all pretty accomplished about this and we're all pretty sure of what we're talking about. No one is telling you how to build your system, but everyone here has responded to your question with the same information. Good luck with what you're doing and since you won't listen to the voice(s) of experience, at least you'll have the opportunity to learn on your own. If nothing else, you may be giving us the opportunity to say "I told ya so" :D (even though most of us aren't like that). And hell, if you love it and that setup sounds great to you and you love it for years (not weeks or months) to come, then you'll be able to say to us that we were the dumb ones.

[massivefirebird]

Jee, I'm sorry! I know how exciting it is to get a bunch of new stuff. I love installing in my car and my friends' and relative's cars... it's fun! I hate that my opinion was negative, but I'd rather be honest... better yet, next time I'll try not to say anything if it's not positive! :D

May I make a few more suggestions?

1. Don't wire your front speakers(6.5 and tweeters) direct to the stereo. You should wire them to the amp, since it can supply more RMS power. And if your amp is capable of wiring at 2 ohms stereo, you'll get more power out of it by wiring the 6.5's and tweeters up front parallel to each channel. The stereo puts out 45 watts peak, which equals up to about half that RMS. You have a lot of speakers, so try to make the front louder.

2. Maybe you should put all 4 tweeters up front? The 6.5's in the middle has tweeters, and you could use more highs up front than in the rear... it'll be pretty loud back there, so the more up front, the better.

3. Make sure your ground point is sanded good, to the metal. And keep power wires seperate from RCA's and speaker wires.

Again, I don't wish you ill, and I hope it turns out great! Happy installing! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[zlightning]

eyeoutthere I never said anything about pioneers in that quote. The only thing from them I am getting is a hu premier hed-p6400 maybe higher and then infinity kappas.

[massivefirebird]

zlightning

How's your spintech sound??? I considered it before I ordered my dynomax, but who knows... I might still go with spintech and sell the dynomax if spintechs sound great. I hear a lot of hype about spintech here, because there's only one shop here that sells it, but it's expensive, or so I hear...

[zlightning]

It sounds nice except I had a weld break on the custom y-pipe they made me. I got the 3inch inlet so they had to make a new y-pipe. The thing sounds great though. I have been complimented on how it sounds by many people, even die hard 8 peeps.

[gonein60]

OK I've been giving this an extremely high amount of thought and was thinking about what you had said about the 5.1 decoders for the car being a big piece of crap. So here is what I have come up with. I went out and bought a 300 watt continuous 600 watt peak DC-to-AC adapter. I can wire it directly into my power antenna so it only comes on with the antenna. I then also decided that it was a waste of money to have a DVD player, CD player and a flip down screen in my car. So what I'm going to do is plug in my 500 watt Dobly Digital decoding receiver from my room, in my car. I am then going to mount a very small home DVD player somewhere easily accesible, preferably under the seat if I can find one small enough. Then I'm going to run a fiber optic cable from the DVD player to the receiver. I'm going to ditch the 2 speaker monsoon in the back and upgrade to 100 watt rms 3 way 6x9's. I'm not going to use the pioneers and get some 100 watt rms 6.5's for the mid section and the doors. Gonna ditch the stock monsoon front tweeters. Then I'm going to use the back and doors as my front and rear channels, here is where the problem comes in, I wanted to wire the middle section as center channel, but my other thought is to disconnect those all together and mount 2 center channel speakers on either side of my main console where your feet are. Probably using 2 5.25 speakers there with 50 watts rms power each. And using my bass tube as a subwoofer powered by my amp with 2 channels bridged into 200 watts rms which is half the tubes rms wattage rating. Then I'm going to mount an in dash LCD screen that doesn't have anything more than just a flip out screen. Then for easy access to cd's I'm going to mount a portable CD player inside my console arm rest that will give me easy access to changing CDs. Quality of sound from the CD player will be irrelevant because it will merely be running the signal to the receiver and since I have a remote to both the receiver and the DVD palyer it won't be a hassle switching things around. There should be enough distance from the front to the back of the car in order for your ears to pick up the difference between front and rear channels, my living room is a little longer than my car so it should work. The sub preout on the receiver is an RCA cable and the amp has a built in crossover too so that should work just fine and all the speakers run off of the receiver so I can actually upgrade to 14 guage wire for best sound.

FYI those of you thinking that I'm gonna blow up that DC-to-AC adapter with that 500 watt receiver, the receiver's power draw is only a continous 200 watts and the DVD player only 16 watts, leaving 84 watts of continuous power left to power my laptop when I use my diagnostic software. It also has a built in cooling fan in it as well.

Couple of questions here.
Where would be the best place to mount the center channel speakers?
What are good 6.5's and 6x9's that will have a 100 watt rms rating?
What is the best in dash LCD and do they make 1.5 din in dash LCDs?
Who can get me this stuff fairly cheap?
Will I need a new alternator?
What are your thoughts on this setup?

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: gonein60 ]</p>