The dedicated capacitor argument thread! :-D

[FireFighter]

attitude, lol. :D I just hate to see people waste their money.

[red93camaro]

oh damn and for a second i thought firefighter knew what he was talking about lol just kidding.

[FireFighter]

Hahaha, its all in good fun. Hey 96firebird311
you locked the other thread I was arguing in and then post this, whats up with that :D

You all know how I feel about caps [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[96firebird311]

Originally posted by CAMAROWIDBASS:
How many 1 Farad Capacitors do you think the Boston Pops, Aerosmith, or Snoop dog use in the recording studio?

Come on now. That's really irrelavant seeing as how they all PLUG INTO THE WALL SOCKET! [img]graemlins/slap.gif[/img]

So your take on this CAMAROWIDBASS, is that one additional battery would yield equal results to using 2,200 one farad caps? That's the summary I'm pulling out of that post. Correct?

Originally posted by FireFighter:
Hahaha, its all in good fun. Hey 96firebird311
you locked the other thread I was arguing in and then post this, whats up with that:D

Didn't think it was going to be such a huge deal at the time. Plus the topic wasn't related to the argument. Somebody looking to learn would have never found it. [img]smile.gif[/img] And we can call this an argument, but I'm trying to keep the positive energy flowin [img]graemlins/rock.gif[/img]

[red93camaro]

But if someone doesn’t have the money for a battery which is about 150 ish or they don’t want to put wires all over their engine bay wouldn’t a cap make a difference if they wanted a quick and easy fix to the light dim problem correct? Even though you don’t like a cap they do help with light dim [img]graemlins/rock.gif[/img]

[BIG8]

Correct me if i'm wrong, i did skim through most of the posts in this thread. Caps are storage units, they store energy pulled from the electrical system. So when you push those big woofers with your big amp the cap compensates for the spike of required power, right. There for canceling out the dimming head lights and ect... Caps store the energy, not acting as a fuse or distro block where it is just another link in the wire, per say. Cap myth number 1 million and something, the general rule of thumb is 1 farad to 1000w of power out put. It is better to over capcitate than under capacitate. Once you charge the cap up, using the appropiate charging board and instructions that came with the unit, you have a reserve voltage source. So is it really worth having the power reserve on stand by for big thumps or having the H/O Alt instead?

[dmw319]

i just went with the HO alternator. *shrug* but im sure the cap would have worked just fine.

[shock_core]

so cap = big battery that can drain and has to be recharged + cheap + need space for funny looking tube + limited system upgradablilty w/out killing ur car/buying more caps

and H/O = entertaining shiny spinny wheel that can't run out of power unless ur belt snaps + Expensive + don't need funny looking tube + lots of options for systems

and hamster wheel = easy bolt on + bad maintence (food, Water, Lazy hamster) + nasty squeeking + entertaining when you and the gf/bf have nothing else to do + bass from system would prolly kill it + cheaper and more effective than cap

H/O > Hamster wheel > capz

[Razzer]

CAMAROWIDBASS
Here to Stay
Member # 4486

posted March 07, 2005 07:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHY DO PEOPLE BUY CAPACITORS?

The number 1 reason would have to be because their lights dim when their
system is playing HARD. In car audio, we are told that a capacitor is
designed to prevent the voltage drop associated with your lights dimming.
The number2 reason is that it is rumored to 'improve' sound quality or
'stiffen' the power supply/source.


HOW MUCH POWER DOES A CAPACITOR STORE?

1 Farad = 100 joules or 100W/second
850cca battery = ~2,200,000 farads

For storage purposes, you'd need ~2,200 1 Farad capacitors to equal the energy of your battery.

Due to its impedence (ESR & ESL), a cap's energy is only 50% available. What's worse, is that in order for a 1 Farad cap to discharge, first the alternator output must have maxed out, and the voltage must have dropped around 1.5 volts. But I thought a cap was supposed to prevent that (voltage drop)!!!!!????? Yep, you got the point.


IF A BATTERY = 2,200 CAPS, THEN WHY BUY A (PUNY) CAP?

My question exactly. Marketing is the reason why people buy caps. In many cases, upgrading wiring will help your system get the maximum transfer of current. Once that has been reached, adding a capacitor may have a minor effect on your system. 50W over the course of a second is not a lot of power considering an amplifier may draw 2000W to put out 1400 watts.


SO, WHAT IS A CAPACITOR GOOD FOR?

I would like to know where you got your electrical engineering degree? I'm an electronics major. A capacitor is used like a filter to smooth out electrical ripples in the dcv that are common with high drain devices eg AMP, they have a very low esr that allows them to discharge faster than a car battery almost instantly. That charge may not be huge but it is large enough to make a voltage difference. Most amp manufactures provide their max power outputs @14.4vdc, so haveing a capacitor next to a amp would help when the amp requires infinite "Watts" amps and current for a micro second or two. As for a alternator it can only see the past and adjust to the dynamic charge loading in the circuit, the battery helps to stablize the system but its higher esr prevents it from fully doing this role. A car battery will give you infinite current but it takes time which a amplifier will skip right on over. Oh if you doubt capacitors in their role just open your 400$ toy and count how many it has inside of it. And as for stored charge 1 farad is very huge in size, 98% of manufactored capacitors have a size of 100mfd or smaller. And don't forget that the larger the cable that you run to your system the larger the resistance of the wire and the more current that is wasted in transit to the device. Also those HO alternators don't provide full current or voltage at idle, so together with a capacitor you are in much better shape with your electrical system in your thumpin car, and a lot less wear and tear on the alternator and battery, and your exspensive radio. ps. I'm looking forward to the 36/42vdc systems in the future, more power with less current means smaller wires and less weight.

[96firebird311]

Originally posted by Razzer:
ps. I'm looking forward to the 36/42vdc systems in the future, more power with less current means smaller wires and less weight.

I read an article about that over a year ago in CA&E I believe. Been waiting to hear more. Will totally change the car audio industry as we know it. Without doubt. Can you say 4,000WRMS for $200?? [img]graemlins/omg.gif[/img]

[Razzer]

There talking about amplifirers that won't need voltage doublers to work, instead all of the amp componets will run off of 36vdc just the way they are creating a much more efficient design. It would also improve power output and make the amps much cheaper to produce. And 42vdc @ 200 amps is 8400 watts. COOL Just a little bit of power.

[IMTHEPUNISHER]

I'm currently runnin' a LOAD BOSS(180A vs. 105A) Alternator, Optima "Red Top" Battery...an' guess what?? NO Capacitors, Baybee!! All that a capacitor does is "clean up" some O' the sound/bass/etc. an' ease a lil' O' the load off said Space Shuttle powerin' alternator. That's IT. Take this from a guy that straight SMOKED the diodes outta' a BRAND NEW "stock" alternator, by tryin' 2 "upgrade everythin' else" around it, instead. Quite honestly, the LOAD BOSS unit was EXTREMELY "reasonable" in price...barely cost much more than some O' the Cap.'s at the local audio joints...even LESS that some O' the more "high end" ones!! Downside: NONE, other than the fact that U have 2 upgrade your cable from the alt. to 4-gauge (came w/ it for an extra $25)...definitely WORTH IT!! Hunt 4 one on EBay, or I can hook anybody up w/ their (800) #.

[dmw319]

ive upgraded to the high output alternator, and did the big 3 wires, and still had headlights dimming a little when my system hit hard, i bought a 1 farad rockford fosgate cap and now there is no dimming. i have both. i also plan to get the yellow top battery soon just for more backup.