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It's me again, 2002 Pontiac Firebird.
I've gotten ALOT of information regarding supercharging, turbo'ing, or a motor swap for my Firebird but I'm still at a point where I can't make a decision on what I want... So lets go ahead and spill some more beans and show my setup plans and see what kind of advice I can get based on those... First the primitives... what the car will be used for...
PRIMARY OBJECTIVE AND CONDITIONS
Whatever I decide to do, the car will need to remain VERY streetable. I purchased the car about 6 months ago, it had 82,000 miles on the clock. I just crossed over 100,000 miles about 2 days ago. Means I put 18k on her in the matter of 6 months and predicting atleast 36,000 miles per year. I do ALOT of driving. Some of it highway, some of it in the streets. MOST of the time it doesn't really see Rush Hour or stop and go traffic, but at times I do get stuck in it so my ideal setup would need to be friendly in these conditions. I am also located in Georgia and it gets hot and pretty humid in the summer time. It's not as bad as Arizona as far as heat or humid as Florida, but the combination makes even my stock car drive sluggishly. I definately need a setup WITHOUT methanol that could sustain temperatures of over 115 degrees of heat and humidity while stuck in traffic and using the air conditioner. I need to retain atleast 22 MPG combo highway/street. It WILL be taking long road trips in the future, but these are mostly highway miles. If I supercharge it or turbocharge it, I still need the motor to last atleast another 100,000 miles without internal damage occuring.
GOAL
To have a MOSTLY street car, rarely strip car with a Forced Induction V6 OR V8 putting down ATLEAST 350 RWHP, preferably 400 RELIABLY on a considerble budget. I might have to divide the project up into two segments as the money for it arrives, but when it does arrive I want a clear perspective of what I'm going to do. I can't spend more than $5k on the car and honestly, PREFERABLY I'd like to stay around $3,500 and I'd like to reduce that to even $2,500 but I know thats going to be very hard.
OPTION 1 - SUPER CHARGER VIA PROCHARGER
I know there was a company that used to make a kit for our cars. I wanted to know when they made it, how much did it cost? I also know there is an LT1 kit that would also fit our cars with some modification, but what kind of modification is necessary to perform this? Now my questions...
1. How much boost with the ProCharger S/C will I need to get my desired power level?
2. What klind of supporting motor mods will I need to attain that power level and sustain it RELIABLY?
My ideal setup was this...
GTP Shortblock from Ebay OR Forged Pistons from ZZP
L32 Coated Rods from ZZP
P&P Heads & Lower/Upper Intake from ZZP
Mild to Moderate cam from ZZP, TSP, or Comp Cams
3,000 Stall Converter
Electric Water Pump from ZZP
Procharger - can get used for $1,800, freshly rebuilt too.
BOV - Ebay
Intercooler - Ebay
Alluminum Radiator - Ebay
Transmission Cooler - Ebay
------------------------
Now what if I divided those into stages?
For example the GTP Shortblock and Procharger W/ Intercooler in Stage 1
The Heads/Cam, Stall Converter in Stage 2?
The Alluminum Radiator and Trans cooler in Stage 3?
3. How much will it cost to fabricate a ProCharger into the 3.8L V6?
4. At 10 PSI or greater, will this setup be a reliable STREET DRIVABLE CAR? If not, what changes would you make or what setup would you biuld?
5. What kind of intercooler should I run, aswell and BOV?
OPTION 2 - TURBO
Alot of people go this route because it's much more efficient and honestly I don't blame them. While I'm a bit of a person who likes to be different however. I honestly like the Supercharger more than I do the turbo charger because I don't like the idea of having exaust pipes clearly visable infront of the engine. So yes, looks are also important. However if we're talking a signifficant difference in price for the same or greater performance, I can comprimise.
First thing is first, I know turbo's are a bit different than Superchargers and have this thing called ".ar ratings" and I have a slight clue as to what they mean, I believe the lower the number, the sooner they begin boosting, and something around .68 is good for our cars IIRC, but if I'm wrong I'm willing to stand corrected. I believe T3 and T4 Turbo's are good for our cars...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/t3-70...Q5fAccessories
What do you think of that?
Stage I would include
Forged Pistons or a GTP Block
T3/T4 Turbo setup @ 15 PSI W/Ceramic Coated Piping
BOV
Wastegate
Intercooler
---
Stage II would include...
P&P Heads, Lower and Upper Intake and Throttlebody.
Cam
3,200 Stall
Transmission Cooler
Oil Cooler
Alluminum Radiator
Manual Fan Switch.
Now for some more technical questions, What kind of BOV, Wastegate, and Intercooler should I use? Also what about for the procharger?
----------------------------------------------------------------
OPTION 3 - LQ4 6.0L Motor Swap vs 5.3L Motor Swap
Story behind this is, a local mechanic will do all the labor involved for $700 if I buy his 5.3L motor for $900... and will do the LQ4 for $850 and I can get the LQ4 in for about $700... Im leaning toward the LQ4 but I have options for both.
With the LQ4 I will leave it the stock displacement. Swap the heads out for Alluminum 5.3L heads to reduce weight and improve power. Long tube headers and True dual exhaust w/high flow bullet cats.
Stage I
Lid - $80
Full Exhaust - $600
LQ4 Motor - $700
5.3L Heads - $400??
BBK Intake W/Corvette Fuel Rails for the return lines to the fuel tank. - $500
Rebiult A4 Trans - $900
Stage II would be to build those heads and add a Futral F14 Cam, biuld the tranny and replace the 10 bolt with a 12 bolt
I also know the harness needs to be changed aswell as front suspension and sway bars.
--
The 5.3L would be the same as the Stage I LQ4 except in Stage II I will be stroking it to a Forged 383 and possibly adding a procharger.
Any more input, ideas, suggestions? I'm having a hard time trying to decide which one I want to go with.
I've gotten ALOT of information regarding supercharging, turbo'ing, or a motor swap for my Firebird but I'm still at a point where I can't make a decision on what I want... So lets go ahead and spill some more beans and show my setup plans and see what kind of advice I can get based on those... First the primitives... what the car will be used for...
PRIMARY OBJECTIVE AND CONDITIONS
Whatever I decide to do, the car will need to remain VERY streetable. I purchased the car about 6 months ago, it had 82,000 miles on the clock. I just crossed over 100,000 miles about 2 days ago. Means I put 18k on her in the matter of 6 months and predicting atleast 36,000 miles per year. I do ALOT of driving. Some of it highway, some of it in the streets. MOST of the time it doesn't really see Rush Hour or stop and go traffic, but at times I do get stuck in it so my ideal setup would need to be friendly in these conditions. I am also located in Georgia and it gets hot and pretty humid in the summer time. It's not as bad as Arizona as far as heat or humid as Florida, but the combination makes even my stock car drive sluggishly. I definately need a setup WITHOUT methanol that could sustain temperatures of over 115 degrees of heat and humidity while stuck in traffic and using the air conditioner. I need to retain atleast 22 MPG combo highway/street. It WILL be taking long road trips in the future, but these are mostly highway miles. If I supercharge it or turbocharge it, I still need the motor to last atleast another 100,000 miles without internal damage occuring.
GOAL
To have a MOSTLY street car, rarely strip car with a Forced Induction V6 OR V8 putting down ATLEAST 350 RWHP, preferably 400 RELIABLY on a considerble budget. I might have to divide the project up into two segments as the money for it arrives, but when it does arrive I want a clear perspective of what I'm going to do. I can't spend more than $5k on the car and honestly, PREFERABLY I'd like to stay around $3,500 and I'd like to reduce that to even $2,500 but I know thats going to be very hard.
OPTION 1 - SUPER CHARGER VIA PROCHARGER
I know there was a company that used to make a kit for our cars. I wanted to know when they made it, how much did it cost? I also know there is an LT1 kit that would also fit our cars with some modification, but what kind of modification is necessary to perform this? Now my questions...
1. How much boost with the ProCharger S/C will I need to get my desired power level?
2. What klind of supporting motor mods will I need to attain that power level and sustain it RELIABLY?
My ideal setup was this...
GTP Shortblock from Ebay OR Forged Pistons from ZZP
L32 Coated Rods from ZZP
P&P Heads & Lower/Upper Intake from ZZP
Mild to Moderate cam from ZZP, TSP, or Comp Cams
3,000 Stall Converter
Electric Water Pump from ZZP
Procharger - can get used for $1,800, freshly rebuilt too.
BOV - Ebay
Intercooler - Ebay
Alluminum Radiator - Ebay
Transmission Cooler - Ebay
------------------------
Now what if I divided those into stages?
For example the GTP Shortblock and Procharger W/ Intercooler in Stage 1
The Heads/Cam, Stall Converter in Stage 2?
The Alluminum Radiator and Trans cooler in Stage 3?
3. How much will it cost to fabricate a ProCharger into the 3.8L V6?
4. At 10 PSI or greater, will this setup be a reliable STREET DRIVABLE CAR? If not, what changes would you make or what setup would you biuld?
5. What kind of intercooler should I run, aswell and BOV?
OPTION 2 - TURBO
Alot of people go this route because it's much more efficient and honestly I don't blame them. While I'm a bit of a person who likes to be different however. I honestly like the Supercharger more than I do the turbo charger because I don't like the idea of having exaust pipes clearly visable infront of the engine. So yes, looks are also important. However if we're talking a signifficant difference in price for the same or greater performance, I can comprimise.
First thing is first, I know turbo's are a bit different than Superchargers and have this thing called ".ar ratings" and I have a slight clue as to what they mean, I believe the lower the number, the sooner they begin boosting, and something around .68 is good for our cars IIRC, but if I'm wrong I'm willing to stand corrected. I believe T3 and T4 Turbo's are good for our cars...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/t3-70...Q5fAccessories
What do you think of that?
Stage I would include
Forged Pistons or a GTP Block
T3/T4 Turbo setup @ 15 PSI W/Ceramic Coated Piping
BOV
Wastegate
Intercooler
---
Stage II would include...
P&P Heads, Lower and Upper Intake and Throttlebody.
Cam
3,200 Stall
Transmission Cooler
Oil Cooler
Alluminum Radiator
Manual Fan Switch.
Now for some more technical questions, What kind of BOV, Wastegate, and Intercooler should I use? Also what about for the procharger?
----------------------------------------------------------------
OPTION 3 - LQ4 6.0L Motor Swap vs 5.3L Motor Swap
Story behind this is, a local mechanic will do all the labor involved for $700 if I buy his 5.3L motor for $900... and will do the LQ4 for $850 and I can get the LQ4 in for about $700... Im leaning toward the LQ4 but I have options for both.
With the LQ4 I will leave it the stock displacement. Swap the heads out for Alluminum 5.3L heads to reduce weight and improve power. Long tube headers and True dual exhaust w/high flow bullet cats.
Stage I
Lid - $80
Full Exhaust - $600
LQ4 Motor - $700
5.3L Heads - $400??
BBK Intake W/Corvette Fuel Rails for the return lines to the fuel tank. - $500
Rebiult A4 Trans - $900
Stage II would be to build those heads and add a Futral F14 Cam, biuld the tranny and replace the 10 bolt with a 12 bolt
I also know the harness needs to be changed aswell as front suspension and sway bars.
--
The 5.3L would be the same as the Stage I LQ4 except in Stage II I will be stroking it to a Forged 383 and possibly adding a procharger.
Any more input, ideas, suggestions? I'm having a hard time trying to decide which one I want to go with.
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