If all a turbo does is create air pressure....why cant an air tank do the same thing?

[xdamxincx]

hmm reminds me of when my bottle is out of n20...it just sprays air...u can feel it make a difference in the performance for about .0001 sec...i will give u an A for using your brain for somthing positive ,but thats all u will benefit from this attempt .

[Riles]

This idea isnt entirely off base, just a little impractical. I thought of this a few months ago, using an 80 cf scuba tank.

I remember reading somewhere that our cars need about 250-350 cfm of air. I figured that an 80 cubic foot tank could supply 600 cfm for 7.5 seconds (based on our cars needing 300 cfm). This is the equivalent of 14.7 psi of boost.

This seems nice, because it could last a whole drag run (because you wouldnt want 14.7 psi, and you wouldnt want full boost at all rpms).

But, I dont think there are any regulators out there that can handle 600 cfm. I dont even think the hole in the scuba tank valve (output) is wide enough to do 600 cfm, because if you open a scuba tank all the way, it takes longer than 7 or even 14 seconds to drain. Also, this is dangerous, because its not good for tanks to go from 3000psi to 14 psi in short periods of time- it stresses the metal and compromises their integrity.

Also, if you have to use an 80 cf tank every run, you either have to bring like 10 tanks to the track, or bring a compressor. Either way, its just not nearly as practical as nitrous, which is the closest thing we have to your idea.

Its still a good thought though. Dont let what the other guys say get you down- if everybody just didnt test their so called "strange" ideas, we wouldnt have most of the inventions that we take for granted today, including the car.

[nikon]

7-14 seconds may be long enough....if all I can get out of it is a boost through 2nd gear I think it would still be worthwhile even with the extra weight which is not that muchan extra 20lbs max with the tank size im planning on using...I am still going to try this...tell me does my timing or anything have to be adjusted?? cause its not happening... ;) ...not worth it....I already have a small tank with a compressor built into it...not very high volume though...I think instead of running alot of tubes under my car for the prototype im just gonna put it in the seat next to me with a hand valve...the only thing I need to design is a one way valve that wont be constictive under normal operation....any ideas on this??

[Fat_kid_in_little_camaro]

Implosion is highly unlikley. Our engines do not suck enough air in to suck the sides of metal, cylindrical canisters in. Do the math. I don't think scuba tanks would be ideal as they are not made to release large amounts of air. This idea would have to work, as long as you are pushing enough air into the engine. If supercharges create boost why wouldn't this? its just getting the air preasure right. The dangerous part would be maintaining the air flow. not to forget, you couldn't keep something like thatfilled up in your trunk or else the heat would cause the air to expand and the tank to explode. but this is absolutly possible. Anyone ever taken a just filled CO2 tank off of a paintball gun? I have a 14oz tank on my paintball gun, its so presurized that it kicks the gun and the tank away from each other when you undo them when the tank is filled. Just remember, it would probably be more efficient to have a rather oversized hose at the tank and have it taper down at the intake, that wy it would put some preasure on it.

[Riles]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by nikon:
7-14 seconds may be long enough....I already have a small tank with a compressor built into it...not very high volume though...the only thing I need to design is a one way valve that wont be constictive under normal operation....any ideas on this??<hr></blockquote>


It will not work with a small tank. If an 80 cubic foot scuba tank can only give 7 seconds continuous use, the tank on a compressor would probably only give you results in the tenths of a second. The only way you can flow enough air to create boost would be to have many scuba tanks in the car hooked up at the same time. But, they way 40 lbs each. You would need more than 3 probably, maybe even more than 5. This idea gets more and more impractical the more you think about it.

Take note of what I'm saying- it will NOT work with a small tank from a compressor. scuba tanks are 40 lbs and are pressurized at 3000 psi, and they arent even enough. Your tank is probably half the size, or less, and probably only holds 150 psi. This is almost 20 times less volume. This means, with all other factors being equal, you will only get .3 seconds of boost.

Is that really worth it? This idea could be practical on a small engine, maybe 50 hp or less. Then it could produce a decent amount of boost for an ok amount of time. You just need to let the idea go unless you are going to use the right equipment (large tank at high pressure, regulators).

Nitrous is the practical version of this idea.

[nikon]

Y'know Ive had other ideas...people knocked me for it...then I went through with it, and it worked...you can tell me it wont work till your blue in the face, but im pretty stuborn...I have to learn by doing...so im gonna try my small tank for the hell of it...and go from there...so if it gives me the .10 second boost as you say...then I might drop the idea...if its .11 then im gonna keep trying....thats just me...thanks for the help and constructive critizism....I still need help on that one way valve...any ideas please?

[ October 02, 2002: Message edited by: nikon ]</p>

[3.4 slow to go]

wonder how much nitrous your tank could hold?
good luck in your experiment, but just remember in your quest for more power......, NEVER, EVER use JATO rockets on your car.

peace.

[Riles]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by nikon:
and go from there...so if it gives me the .10 second boost as you say...then I might drop the idea...if its .11 then im gonna keep trying....<hr></blockquote>

I didnt mean to sound harsh, I totally agree with the learn by doing attitude. I just wanted to let you know the numbers I got when I did the math on the idea before.

Now, about the one way valve. What if you made a big, thin silicon or even plastic (garbage bag material?) and put it over the air filter. You could tape it down in the front of the airbos, and leave it free on the other three sides. Then, if you put the air in from the top(maybe through a hole in the air lid), the pressure (hopefully there is some)would push the plastic down, preventing outside air from getting in, and inside air from getting out. Now, it probably wouldnt work with just a little plastic bag, but you see what Im getting at.

[OneQuickV6]

Ok, a simple fact that people are forgetting....Gases go from high pressure areas to lower pressure. Even if you could just stick a hose in there and get it pressurized, as soon as it happened, it would go the other way out your intake, unless of course you did good plumbing and made this your only source of incoming air. Think about it, a turbo isn't just slapped inline with your intake....You gotta seal alot off so your new source of intake air won't be lost...Make any sense?

[nikon]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Riles:


I didnt mean to sound harsh, I totally agree with the learn by doing attitude. I just wanted to let you know the numbers I got when I did the math on the idea before.

Now, about the one way valve. What if you made a big, thin silicon or even plastic (garbage bag material?) and put it over the air filter. You could tape it down in the front of the airbos, and leave it free on the other three sides. Then, if you put the air in from the top(maybe through a hole in the air lid), the pressure (hopefully there is some)would push the plastic down, preventing outside air from getting in, and inside air from getting out. Now, it probably wouldnt work with just a little plastic bag, but you see what Im getting at.<hr></blockquote>

very good idea....and inexpensive at that...I may have some good material for this too....thanks alot [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] ;)

[RamAir95TA]

HAHAHAH!

[Riles]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by OneQuickV6:
You gotta seal alot off so your new source of intake air won't be lost...Make any sense?<hr></blockquote>


Thats what the post about the plastic flap over the air filter was all about. It is a one way flap. Air can come in with little restriction, but cant get out.