NEW INFO ABOUT BETA KIT!

[BATMAN]

I think you all misread my previous post where i was talking about a refund. Thats something i said to BILL to get him to start working on it more agressivly. (reread that post)

"I haven't been bugging him because i basically said that we have all been waiting a long time and my car has to be done by OCT 25th..COMPLETELY DONE... that means all alpha testing and tuning DONE.

OR... I am pulling the project and i will cut my losses and he would have to refund all of you guys and i would get my money back too.

He said to drop of the car... that was two weeks ago."


means that i haven't been bugging him the two weeks cause i told him that if he didn't start working on the car that i was going to pull the project. It was just something i told him to get him to get a little mor serious about things. I was not saying i was going to give a refund.


Per the reciept and the original posts made when we started this whole thing. I made it very clear that a refund would only be given if we did not complete a kit. A kit is being made... its taking a lot longer than we anticipated, but it is being made. As long as we deliver the kit, a refund does not have to be made. Something like this can't be rushed.

I am rushing it as fast as possible. However...there is nothing we can do when you fry 5 PCMs, and have to wait a week - 2 weeks between each code realease. There is nothing you can do when the intercooler doesn't fit and it takes a week to 2 weeks for a custom one to be made. There is nothing you can do when it took ATI more than 2 months to deliver the initial parts requested for the kit. I've been working at this as agressive as i can and a kit will be made and delivered.

[Steve Presley]

thanks for the clarification.

btw, I still haven't received my receipt.

[Dominic]

Good Luck batman, these things take time. Look how long it took hypertech to release a powerprogrammer for just the 00-02s!

It'll kick *** in the end, we all know this :D

[scottblack]

Well, to offer my viewpoint on this...

You clearly stated that refunds would be given on Oct 25th in your other post. And now you are refuting it? Yes you have done alot of work on this and have other issues going on in your life, but that's how life goes. The beta testers can't be expected to deal with a personal issue of yours, which I think you've done a good job of not letting it slow you down. However, in that post, you promised them a refund after the 25th of October if the kits were not finished, and now you are refuting that. Here it is verbatim:

"I haven't been bugging him because i basically said that we have all been waiting a long time and my car has to be done by OCT 25th..COMPLETELY DONE... that means all alpha testing and tuning DONE.

OR... I am pulling the project and i will cut my losses and he would have to refund all of you guys and i would get my money back too."

Yes it says "HE" will have to refund all the money. But it is still a refund that you promised. Bottom line is that you should not have promised a refund when you had no intentions of giving one.

My $0.02. Please don't take this as a bash, because it's not. You have been bustin' balls for a long time over this and it is good to see someone take the initiative over such a project like this. It is just the principal of the matter. Good luck.

Scott

[NBMA4V6]

well i didnt even sign up to be a tester for this kit for many reasons but now im very thankful that i didnt get pulled into this. anyways i think this is complete bull**** and all people who want refunds should get there money back. there is a total disregard for deadlines here, the kit was suppost to come out what like 4 months ago. and your telling me that they couldnt test fit the intercooler 1 time in all the time that your car has been at there shop...please it takes all of 10 minutes with hand tools to take off the lid and make sure the intercooler would fit. that is poor planning in my view. yeah 5 PCM's were messed up, that sucks and that was a slowdown but damn if your guy would work on your freaking car than i think things could have been done a long time ago. Seems as though Bill couldnt give a rats *** if this kit gets done. i mean damn it took 1 week for all of us here in houston to complete putting a turbo, intercooler and all the little things on tiagos car and that was a quality job, but the difference between that job and this one is that we actually worked on and not just talk about it.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>"I haven't been bugging him because i basically said that we have all been waiting a long time and my car has to be done by OCT 25th..COMPLETELY DONE... that means all alpha testing and tuning DONE.

OR... I am pulling the project and i will cut my losses and he would have to refund all of you guys and i would get my money back too."

<hr></blockquote>
this seems like a deadline to me and it has now passed. bill has shown to be unreliable and it seems that he is working on this project half *** when you have such big expectations. i think you recieved the short end of the deal here and placed your trust in someone who wasnt as determined to get a project done as you.

IMHO i say those who want a refund should be given one. i know all these people wouldnt have sent a deposit in over 7 months ago. they expected a kit that they could use this racing season. and now that wont happen. yeah once the kit gets on your car then what? i already forsee tuning problems and such and more delays. what if your car has problems after the charger goes on? nothing ever goes on without a problem.. more delays i forsee this project that was coming out months ago to be out next year.

nearly 8 months to put a blower on a v6 f body is OUTRAGIOUS..i think my friends and i could fabricate a blower on my car in 1 month if i wanted to use a supercharger.

all the deadlines have been passed, no one has faith in the kit getting done therefore they are selling there beta spots, i say let those out that want out and rethink your deal with mach performance.

that is all. goodluck with the decisions.

edit it took us 1 week to put the turbo on tiagos car :D thanks for the correction tiago [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ October 27, 2002: Message edited by: NBMA4V6 ]</p>

[hawgs]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by NBMA4V6:
well i didnt even sign up to be a tester for this kit for many reasons but now im very thankful that i didnt get pulled into this. anyways i think this is complete bull**** and all people who want refunds should get there money back. there is a total disregard for deadlines here, the kit was suppost to come out what like 4 months ago. and your telling me that they couldnt test fit the intercooler 1 time in all the time that your car has been at there shop...please it takes all of 10 minutes with hand tools to take off the lid and make sure the intercooler would fit. that is poor planning in my view. yeah 5 PCM's were messed up, that sucks and that was a slowdown but damn if your guy would work on your freaking car than i think things could have been done a long time ago. Seems as though Bill couldnt give a rats *** if this kit gets done. i mean damn it took 2 weeks at most for all of us here in houston to complete putting a turbo, intercooler and all the little things on tiagos car and that was a quality job, but the difference between that job and this one is that we actually worked on and not just talk about it.


this seems like a deadline to me and it has now passed. bill has shown to be unreliable and it seems that he is working on this project half *** when you have such big expectations. i think you recieved the short end of the deal here and placed your trust in someone who wasnt as determined to get a project done as you.

IMHO i say those who want a refund should be given one. i know all these people wouldnt have sent a deposit in over 7 months ago. they expected a kit that they could use this racing season. and now that wont happen. yeah once the kit gets on your car then what? i already forsee tuning problems and such and more delays. what if your car has problems after the charger goes on? nothing ever goes on without a problem.. more delays i forsee this project that was coming out months ago to be out next year.

nearly 8 months to put a blower on a v6 f body is OUTRAGIOUS..i think my friends and i could fabricate a blower on my car in 1 month if i wanted to use a supercharger.

all the deadlines have been passed, no one has faith in the kit getting done therefore they are selling there beta spots, i say let those out that want out and rethink your deal with mach performance.

that is all. goodluck with the decisions.<hr></blockquote>


totally agreed, couldnt have said it better myself. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Silver2000V6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BATMAN:
I think you all misread my previous post where i was talking about a refund. Thats something i said to BILL to get him to start working on it more agressivly. (reread that post)
<hr></blockquote>

I just reread it a few times and it still sounds like a deadline to me. The post specifically says "my car has to be done by OCT 25th..COMPLETELY DONE... that means all alpha testing and tuning DONE. OR... I am pulling the project and i will cut my losses and he would have to refund all of you guys and i would get my money back too."

[pgriffith]

You guys need to take it easy. This is going to take some time and things like what have happend were not BATMAN's fault and they were beyond Bill's and Batman's control. Nothing ever goes as planned problems always happen with big projects such as these and you guys need to be a little more understanding. And why the hell would anyone want a refund. I see this kit making good HP when it is completed. If it were me and I had the money and wanted a supercharger I would keep waiting and be a little more understanding of what BATMAN and Bill at Mach performance are doing for us.

[NBMA4V6]

yeah i see your point, batman is tryin his best get this done, it is not his fault. it IS however bills fault, from what i see he doesnt give a **** if this gets done. why are you sticking up for bill like hes your best friend. ANY SHOP will do the same thing he did if you approach them with enough money. i gaurentee i could get a supercharger done in 1 month if i wanted one.

batman should be commended for tryin to get this done but mach performance gets a [img]graemlins/thumbsdown.gif[/img] for there work on this project.

[scottblack]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by NBMA4V6:
yeah i see your point, batman is tryin his best get this done, it is not his fault. it IS however bills fault, from what i see he doesnt give a **** if this gets done. why are you sticking up for bill like hes your best friend. ANY SHOP will do the same thing he did if you approach them with enough money. i gaurentee i could get a supercharger done in 1 month if i wanted one.

batman should be commended for tryin to get this done but mach performance gets a [img]graemlins/thumbsdown.gif[/img] for there work on this project.<hr></blockquote>

agreed!

Scott

[Silver00]

I unfortunately am one of the beta testers who supplied the 300 deposit under the assumption I would have a S/C'd 3.8 in the near future. I never fathomed that it would take 7-8 months for final completion (that's assuming everything still goes smoothly from now on, which I seriously doubt.) I do understand too that good things take time however as NBMA4V6 made evident, I could have went to a local speed shop like MTI and given them my car for a month and asked them to S/C my car and had it back no problem by the deadline of one month. Even if it did take longer I seriously don't think it would have taken 2/3's of a yr.
I'm not trying to bash Batman since he is not the one working on it. HOWEVER, you did clearly state that you made a remark about refunds being supplied on the 25th - had a kit not been made. I am not a mind reader hence I had no idea you didn't intend on following through with this. On the internet things are hard to follow at times, so you just have to take everything for it's face value. I interpreted it just as it was typed on my screen. At this point in time I don't want the S/C anymore as I don't see it's completion anytime in the near future. I'd be totally ecstatic just to receive my refund back and gladly leave the topic alone. However I am hoping that Ryan will stand his word and not back out like he tried to in his previous post. It's not that I was one of the testers who have gone and blown the money because I have 4 grand in cash right here sitting next to me - so affording the kit is no problem. It's the fact that a deadline was set and once again tossed, just like all the previous deadlines. Well I'm tired of it. Just please give me my refund and I'll shut up.

[strobhen]

I do not want to get deeply intertwined into this issue, but here is my opinion for what its worth. Just an opinion, please don't take any part of this as a personal attack, it is not meant as such.

From Batman:
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Per the reciept and the original posts made when we started this whole thing. I made it very clear that a refund would only be given if we did not complete a kit.<hr></blockquote>

You agreed to that, and that is the only circumstance that anyone should get a refund.

Before anyone goes off bashing Batman for making & breaking promises, perhaps you should re-read the initial terms. Anyone who asks for a refund is breaking their promise as well. I think perhaps what Batman said was a little hasty, but some slack needs to be cut for him.

If money is a problem, then its your own fault. If you had it before and don't have it now, you should have saved (assuming the money wasn't used for a real emergency. Buying a car or house isn't an emergency.) If you never had it, then you didn't have a good grip on your finances in the first place.

If money is not a problem, I personally do not see the big deal in a wait (as long as the product is good!). I would rather wait for something good than go to some local speed shop and get a hack job in one month (which most jobs I see from local shops are just that, especially jobs done in one month). If you don't want the supercharger anymore, perhaps you should have thought about it a little more before laying down the 300 bucks? Just like it is not your problem that Batman has had a lot of personal problems lately, its not Batman's problem that you can't make up your mind.

I knew it was going to happen when all this started. I know how the general population of this message board acts, I am guilty of it myself. Get all excited & gung-ho about something & then never follow through. Maybe that deposit should have been a little higher to deter away the impulse buyers.

I think the worst crime Batman has done through all this is not fully understanding the job set before him, and not taking into account murphy's law. Pretty mild stuff if you ask me. Noone can say they knew better than him either -- otherwise you would have expected this delay and really would have no reason to be asking for a refund.

I could understand the need for a refund if the kit wasn't coming out or the quality of the kit is in question (I have no doubt it will be top quality myself). But for a delay? No, I don't think so. Delays happen, big delays happen. Trust me, I know, I have seen it and been involved with them first hand. Generally they happen because the scope of the project was not fully understood before starting. Delays are a fact of life, get used to them, they ARE going to happen.

Here I just see a lot of things working against the deadlines set forth. A lot of things that really cannot be controlled.

If I had bought a kit, I wouldn't be asking for a refund. If I were in Batman's or Bill's situation, I would not give a refund.

If you want out, sell your spot. If you can't sell it now, give it time. Wait until Batman's car is done & dyno'ed and the kit is a sure thing. You'll have an easier time selling it then. If I remember correctly Batman gave everyone a pretty good time period in which to pay -- plenty of time to sell the beta spot.

I'm not going to say Batman is 100% right, nor will I say the Beta testers are 100% right. There were mistakes made, yes. But I do not see anything that constitutes a mandatory refund. If Batman & Bill decided to give them, I would consider yourselves very lucky.

[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: strobhen ]</p>

[Silver00]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>If you don't want the supercharger anymore, perhaps you should have thought about it a little more before laying down the 300 bucks? Just like it is not your problem that Batman has had a lot of personal problems lately, its not Batman's problem that you can't make up your mind.<hr></blockquote>

I don't see how that's not a personal/direct attack. You pretty much almost quote my situation word for word. Should have just used the quote fxn. I take that as a flame - thanks a lot dick for knocking me...yeah and your welcome for your help a long time ago.

[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: Silver00 ]</p>

[scottblack]

You're joking me right? MTI doing a "hack" job? :rolleyes: Sure bud, go ahead and think that. Bottom line is that he stated a refund would be given, KNOWING WHAT HE PUT ON THE RECEIPTS, and is now refuting that statement.

And who are you to question people for buying a house or a different car??? That's absurd. Keep your personal attacks out of the board.

Scott

[NBMA4V6]

yes it said no refunds on the original reciept BUT you are neglecting to take into account these words right here that would be binding in a legal matter

BY Batman:
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>I haven't been bugging him because i basically said that we have all been waiting a long time and my car has to be done by OCT 25th..COMPLETELY DONE... that means all alpha testing and tuning DONE.

OR... I am pulling the project and i will cut my losses and he would have to refund all of you guys and i would get my money back too.

<hr></blockquote>

thats a dealine and it has passed, i dont give a rats *** if there was something else in the past this is the current situation.. this was suppost to be done a long time ago and the chargers on the cars a long time ago. I dont see why all you guys who defend this project as the best thing that ever happend to our cars cant getover that. it says October 25. OR the project is over with...that clearly means to me that refunds should be given to those who want them and those who want to continue can..

[ October 28, 2002: Message edited by: NBMA4V6 ]</p>