Calling out Teufel Hunden...

[UsMuScL398]

EDIT: ok yea arent the same, but the turbo placement and intercooler on is. just exhaust

[ June 21, 2004, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: UsMuScL398 ]

[UsMuScL398]

LoL send me a link Use aol?

[Teufel Hunden]

I looked and they look similar, and i actually seen in person his and i think the 3.8 one does tho

Here is how the FFF kit comes off of the manifolds and goes up to the turbo.

http://www.forcefedfab.com/images/PI...t/Dsc00727.jpg


Now, here is how my system comes off of the headers and up to the turbo.

http://ourworld.cs.com/TeufelHundenM...ssoverPipe.jpg

http://ourworld.cs.com/TeufelHundenM...soverPipe2.jpg

The only thing similar between the two is that the turbo is mounted in front of the engine. His is mounted directly under the MAF, mine is mounted to the left of the MAF.

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by UsMuScL398:
EDIT: ok yea arent the same, but the turbo placement and intercooler on is. just exhaust

both turbos sit in front of the motor.... however,FFF kit sits the turbo pretty much right below the TB, whereas on teufel's car, it sits further over towards the passenger side of the car, by several inches... which is different IMO.... and yes, both intercoolers sit in the front of the car (after all, there are tons of other places to put one)....actually....teufel considered mounting it right on the roof,but decided against it because it would have made the t-tops useless [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] :D

[Teufel Hunden]

Originally posted by UsMuScL398:
EDIT: ok yea arent the same, but the turbo placement and intercooler on is. just exhaust

My intercooler isn't mounted ANYTHING like the FFF kit offered for the 3.8.

[UsMuScL398]

I ment the piping to it and thus to the intake i presume [img]graemlins/slap.gif[/img]

[Teufel Hunden]

Originally posted by UsMuScL398:
I ment the piping to it and thus to the intake i presume [img]graemlins/slap.gif[/img]

I don't see why you're trying to point out any similarities there might be. My intercooler is mounted in the front of the car, so is the 3.8 FFF kit... so therefore both will have pipes running FORWARD to the intercooler then UP from the intercooler to the TB. there aren't many DIFFERENT ways to run turbo pipes when things are located in the same parts of the car. My pipes from the IC to the TB are different from the FFF kit, i'll post pics when i get them.

[UsMuScL398]

aight cool. ok this may be a dumb question but if the psi is basicly the same, why does the piping matter (havent finished max boost yet) i mean if u get the turbo spining what makes one better than the other?

[Teufel Hunden]

My pipe is less prohibitive to flow. The less prohibition you have to flow rates, the more air it can flow at less pressure. My turbo will spool a bit more efficiently because of the more efficient, less restrictive pipe. Also, it's not PSI that makes power, it's airflow. If i flow 1000cfm at 5psi, i'll make the same power as a car that flows 1000cfm at 10psi.

[UsMuScL398]

gotcha thx

[UsMuScL398]

Maybe this is another one of my dumb ?'s but could u explain the cfm thing or a link perhaps and just how the exhaust piping contributes to it?

[Tiago]

this thread SHOULD be deleted because its total BS. I just wanted more information about someone who I know nothing about who is bashing me all of the sudden and now his buddy is here with us too.

For the record I only deleted ONE post, and the only reason I did so is because I know the tool that posted it and he was only out to piss me off, offered NO information to the thread whatsoever.

As has been discussed 2357895374895637476234 times... The welds shown in most of the pics are welds done on the PROTOTYPE kit that we made in our garage with a simple mig welder setup on flux core. Most of them were also Bryan's first experience Welding. Now we have gotten much better with better equipment as well. However all of this is pointless because as Ive pointed out before: THE KITS ARE NOT FABRICATED BY US! We have a proffessional shop weld/mandrel bend all of the pipes we are selling in the kit! There are a few pics of this posted on my site. Funny how those pictures wwere not posted :rolleyes:

http://www.forcefedfab.com/images/PI.../P1010001.html

As to the issue of material of fabrication. It has been said, SS is far too expensive. The pipes we have used have been tested EXTENSIVELY!!! tortured in real life testing for over a year's worth of driving, 20,000 plus miles of beating. NO PROBLEM!!!

I don't know where you get off saying your that your piping is"less restrictive" if it is the same **** as mine, and it is Ive seen your pics, yes I do use mandrel bends, I don't know where u got anything otherwise. Yes you used a "Y" piping fitting. Thats all the difference I saw and although I do use one of those in other kits we didn't there because of fittment issues. We may consider other options later on.

Headers. Ive seen proven that the tubular manifolds can make plenty of power. somethign that comes to mind is the Ls1 with 01+ tubular manifolds and a T88, 1050 hp. STock unported tubular manifolds very similar to the 3.8's design. Also for simplicity and price I didn't wnat to include headers in teh kit and why shoudl I if it will perform the same.

COnnectors. All of our cars have ran these connectors during our test periods and not ONCE have I EVER blown out ANY of the connectors. Even with out so called "inferior" clamps. It is true there is higher quality components taht can be purchased out there. But bang for the buck comes to mind. And Simply said, I don't think anyone can beat what I offer in that department.

This community is going more for bang for the buck. I don't think many people wnat to buy a 5-7 thoudsand dollar kit. I don't think anyone would actually. Cause with that kinda budget, the design options are limitless I would say. I can build the "PERFECT" kit and still make out ok. BUt simply this is not for the masses of the v6 crowd. They want something that is gonna run good and not break the bank. I can offer that.


You ask about if we are competitive in v8 market. We are slowly getting into it. Its alot harder to break into a market which is dominated by others already. However I don't see anyone out there that can beat the results we have proven with our LT1 kits. Soon the same will probably occur with our LS1 kit also. We sell a kit half the price as the others out there yet we offer better results. Noone has beat our results yet on the LT1s, not even your fancy $7000 dollar turbo or supercharger kits (cheaper, weaker).

We are proving ourselves with results.

[ June 21, 2004, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Tiago ]

[hou-tex-six]

I agree with Tiago 100%. There might be better materials and more effcient designs that are possible, but not necessarily practical for the applications we are talking about here. In a pefect world all kits would be stainless forward swept headers with all stainless hardaware, T clamps, etc etc. But in this perfect world we would all be able to dish out 7k for a kit.

I don't really see the efficiency improvement of this "kit", which it is not, its just a setup, a kit needs to take into account the possibilities of mass producing the peices. This setup takes none into account.

I have worked with Tiago on various projects fairly closely and have seen a full production set of pipes that I could make judgements about the quality of the piping, welds, and materials. As far as I know no one on here talking about the quality of the welds has held them in their hands.

Bottom line if you wanna talk the talk then its real easy to say everything is crap and "bad quality" but you are bascally talking out of your ***. You made a decent looking system there, but you really are talking about two different setups with different goals in mind, and add to that the fact that you have never even seen what it is you are putting down and you just really have no point to make except the fact that you want to be a hardass.

Good luck if you intend to sell a kit that requires I buy headers that rarely fit without leaking and cut up my frame (and don't try to tell me "it's safe because I say so").

Cp

[DavidSiri]

Hm...We had a couple 20 psi runs on my car and no connectors blew off. I've hit numerous pot holes/speedbumps going 10 to 15 MPH's and no rubbing/scraping. As a matter of fact, the place I had finish my exhaust, their pipes are rubbing but not Tiago's.

On another note, you said he uses a full exhaust and FFF doesn't. If I wanted a full exhaust I'd have one. Guess why I don't? I like it loud. AND I make FAR more power that way.

EDIT: let me add in one more thing. There was a good amount of oil in my turbo pipes while making those runs, too. And they STILL didn't blow off. Low quality ****, huh?......

[Timbo1969]

This thread has gone from a simple "call out lets see what you have" thread to a down right stupid pissing contest. I agree with Tiago it should be deleted or locked. No one asked for bashing just a sharing of information as Mr Hunden has been bashing with nothing to show.