M90 Supercharger

[Bird_Of_Prey]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bradley Palmer:
Im going to mount the intercooler in that little place between the grill ( on the back side of coarse ). Im going to figure out a way to inject my nitrous when i get it which i dont think it will be too hard but still im gonna try to figure it out. And the dang pistons are going to cost me 650 for 6. Dang but they go to a GN and there made for nos and supercharging. The rods are gonna run me about 500 or maybe alittle less. O well it is stuff i was planning on doing anyway so might as well.

[img]graemlins/toto.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/fluffy.gif[/img] he will never catch him [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Ok, I'm not gonna knock you here, but you are a rook. You can't intercool roots style blowers how you have described, it's physically impossible. The process you described would keep re-cooling and pressurizing the blower only since the air would be routed out from the bottom of the blower, to the intercooler and then back to the throttle body, see my point? When does the air actually get into the engine. Some of the GTP guys run aftercoolers mounted between their blowers and lower intake manifolds, but thats water to air cooling and usually creates more problems than it solves.

If your truly serious about this, look into alcohol injection, it cools the charge and gives you a minor octane boost. You can find that information on Grand National forums like turboregal.com Speaking of which, that's the only GN part that would actually work with what your proposing. The series 1 and 2 3.8 liter V-6 engines are very different. Yes the have similar bores and strokes, but firing order and such is different, it's not close enough to be interchangeable. You would be much better off going with the L67 forged rods and pistons for less than $750 if memory serves. That way you know what your getting and that it definately will work with your application, honestly, I would hate to see you or anyone spend a ton of money just to find out nothing works.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I would check with GM Australia Holden, and see what parts they offer to make the swap a little easier, find someone on the net with a RWD Superchared Holden with the L67 in it. I believe that information would be invaluable. Any other questions, feel free to email or ask.

Tom

[Bradley Palmer]

First of all i aint a rookie dude. And second it will work with a roots type charger it just wont work as well as it would with a turbo or procharger set up. I was just posting that to see what yall thought. Its only gonna cost around 200 for one but im not sure yet if im gonna get one. Thanks for the input though. :D

[img]graemlins/toto.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/fluffy.gif[/img] he will never catch him. [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

[Jason]

OK i dont see how it would work any differently whether its the M90 or a Procharger...ITs still cooling the air thats STILL going into the car...?

[MustangEater8251]

I was looking at a GTP, couldn't you mount it and run a pipe, running at an angle and mount the TB on it anomewhere else?

a TB relocation I guess would be a term for it, its not the most efficient or easy but it would work wouldn't it?

[Bradley Palmer]

Yes i think that would work. Having an intercooler could help but it also could hurt. I loose boost when i add it. (HP) but adding it gets me colder air and more power. Im really confused over this intercooler thing somebody explain in deatail if i should or shouldn't do it.

[img]graemlins/toto.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/fluffy.gif[/img] he will never catch him. [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

[DEE97GTP]

Anything above 10psi, I would strongly consider it. I wished I had one. But making an effective one it somewhat difficult.

have you looked at www.thrasher-ep.com ? they have some pretty good technical info.

Also, http://www.automotive.eaton.com/prod...trols/M90.html

www.magnusonproducts.com

DEE

[Bird_Of_Prey]

Ok, you are a ROOKIE, you have been on this board for less than a month. Get off your high horse and LISTEN. YOU CAN NOT USE AN AIR TO AIR INTERCOOLER WITH A ROOTS STYLE BLOWER, PERIOD. It is physically impossible, you can see above for the reasoning.

[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: Bird_Of_Prey ]</p>

[Jason]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bird_Of_Prey:
Ok, you are a ROOKIE, you have been on this board for less than a month. Get off your high horse and LISTEN. YOU CAN NOT USE AN AIR TO AIR INTERCOOLER WITH A ROOTS STYLE BLOWER, PERIOD.<hr></blockquote>

so what if hes a rookie on this board? he seems to have done SOME research. so why dont YOU calm yourself down. and WHEN did he say he was gonna do an AIR TO AIR? and furthermore WHY COULDNT HE USE AN INTERCOOLER!? Air goes into the throttle body right? and on a Centrifugal SC the intercooler goes before the SC then the cooler air goes through the SC and into the intake right? SO why couldnt he mount the intercooler BEFORE the supercharger and have it go into the throttle body and into the supercharger. What the hell is the difference? ive asked this question already and nobody answered it. and since you seem to know everything why dont you shed some light on it.

[Jason3.4L]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bradley Palmer:
Yes i think that would work. Having an intercooler could help but it also could hurt. I loose boost when i add it. (HP) but adding it gets me colder air and more power. Im really confused over this intercooler thing somebody explain in deatail if i should or shouldn't do it.
<hr></blockquote>

Well a intercooler(aftercooler) cools the air that comes out of the supercharger, cause as we all know cooler air=more hp. When you supercharge a car you are compressing air, compressed air is hot. Hot air is not good for a engine and can lead to detonation. Like DEE97GTP stated anything over 9-10psi should be intercooled. A intercooler comes in 2 main forms, Air to Air and Water to air are most common. Air to Air is simple the intercooler is mounted somewhere near the front of the car so outside air can pass through the unit to cool the charged air that is passing through the unit (kinda like a waterless radiator). Water to air uses water to dissipate the heat from the forced air in a similar way.

Now as to what Bird of Prey stated I will agree with him. Air to Air on a roots system is impossible because of the fact that there is no outside (cooler non charged air) able to get to the intercooler. On a roots system the air is forced directly into the engine from the bottom of the SC unit, so there is no way to make a working Air to Air intercooler setup on a roots system because there is no way to route the charged air to a intercooler where cooler outside air can cool it off. Water to air is the only setup that could and will work in this situation. I am not against you on what you are doing. It can be done it is just a matter of time and money.

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: Jason3.4L ]</p>

[DEE97GTP]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jason:


Air goes into the throttle body right? and on a Centrifugal SC the intercooler goes before the SC then the cooler air goes through the SC and into the intake right? ]<hr></blockquote>
No they mount it after.
] <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>SO why couldnt he mount the intercooler BEFORE the supercharger and have it go into the throttle body and into the supercharger. What the hell is the difference? ive asked this question already and nobody answered it. and since you seem to know everything why dont you shed some light on it.<hr></blockquote>

I don't recall all the thermo equations, but the delta temp between 2 mediums directly affects the amount of heat that can be transferred in a given amount of time.

I believe thrasher has all the intercooler thermodynamics explained. Do a little math and you will see. The only way it could be effective is if the IC before the SC was REALLY COLD, I am talking below freezing.

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: DEE97GTP ]</p>

[Bird_Of_Prey]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jason:


so what if hes a rookie on this board? he seems to have done SOME research. so why dont YOU calm yourself down. and WHEN did he say he was gonna do an AIR TO AIR? and furthermore WHY COULDNT HE USE AN INTERCOOLER!? Air goes into the throttle body right? and on a Centrifugal SC the intercooler goes before the SC then the cooler air goes through the SC and into the intake right? SO why couldnt he mount the intercooler BEFORE the supercharger and have it go into the throttle body and into the supercharger. What the hell is the difference? ive asked this question already and nobody answered it. and since you seem to know everything why dont you shed some light on it.<hr></blockquote>

Ok, I don't know who pissed in your cheerios, but look at what this Bradly guy is talking about, using GN Series 1 3.8 parts has been talked to death, I know, cause I did it myself when i was a newbie. That is something you can easily learn by searching this boards fine archives. Jason and Dee already explained how an intercooler works, if it's before the forced induction medium, it's a cold air kit, after the air is compressed it's an intercooler or aftercooler depended on if you buy the vortech kit. There are a few different types of intercoolers, you can use a front mount like described earlier, but not with an Eaton M90, Thrasher makes an air to water intercooler for that, but I've heard it's grossly inefficent and you can chill the air better with an alky injection kit.

Do yourself a favor, look up to my original reply, I tried to make it as clear and concise as possible. Why not take good sound advice when it is given? That makes sense, and every thing I said could be easily verified by the archives. And while I'm helping you out, no one in this entire thread is talking about a centrifugical supercharger, it's solely about the Eaton M90 Roots style blower. Anything else anyone wants answered so they don't waste about $1000 on a good front mount that they have no need for?

Tom

[Jason]

ya know im gonna CHANGE this long smartass post because im just gonna shut my mouth and forget I said anything to begin with. From now on ill just keep my opinions and **** to myself.

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: Jason ]</p>

[jmorgan]

I agree Bradley Palmer is a rookie lmao no really


You can't really intercool a roots type blower as said

GN internal parts do not work as said and Bradley Palmer if you did resaerch before spouting your mouth off you would have alot of your answeres I found all the answeres i have asked my self on here read read read dont state stuff that you are not positive will work cause someone will prove you wrong

you obviously have not done enough reasearch i hope to god for the sake of your L36 that you do some reasarch before you attemp to put that M90 on there

as stated about the only interal stuff we have is from the L67 (GTP engin) forged pistons and rods a new crank would be custom no one makes one for us

My opioion is the M90 is pointless for the most part when the procharger is going to be coming out. Yes its more money but its more power and more safe. You will notice the problem with the GTPs are the aftercooler (besides the what is it like $1000 price tag i belive) dosnt help much and you are going to be limited on the boost (not much more then 12 im sure)

If you really wanted a roots type blower as said you should of gone with a whipple S/C


you can do what you want but if i were you I would do ALOT of research before going off and attemping stuff thats not been done and when there are easyer and better ways of doing it I would say if you were getting a whipple S/C then ok be a pioner but the M90 is used on the L67 so not much in terms of a high performance pinoner granted the M90 might be a better route then the powerdyne the procharger is gonna turn some heads when its gets completed


just my .02

[Jason]

OK im not being an *******...but what if somone doesnt want the BLISTERING HP a procharger could and will put out and what if they NEVER will. Why would the M90 not suffice? Granted it is alot of work but hasnt every SC we've put on our car been a lot of work thus far? Even the powerdyne has caused alot of work and tinkering at times to get it right, and that was as simple as they come when the vector kit was around. Just a curious question again im not trying to be an *******. Maybe im missing the big picture here. ALSO i realize that ALOT OF HP is Bradleys goal but what if it werent for somone else? I myself would be QUITE happy with 40-60hp gain over stock i mean you could probably squeeze 60-70hp out of it right? Now you guys talk about a Whipple supercharger...do they make one that will bolt up to our engines?

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: Jason ]</p>

[Bradley Palmer]

Well number one yes you can get a forged crankshaft made from scat for 3000 bucks. I also know that alot of yall saying you know something got what you know from someone else that thought that they knew something too but really didnt have a clue. Cooling your air before it enters the TB then into the charger is not that hard to do. All you have to do is mount the intercooler (wich you can buy one on ebay thats almost brand new for about 200 bucks) Air to Air in a place say the grill that gets alot of air. It can and will be done regardless of what some of yall say. There are only a few people i am listening too on this topic, because they seem to know something about whats going on and i have made my own decision to listen to them and not to some of yall. I bought this for 500 bucks and i just bought it to play around with. Im eventually going to get a TT kit but that will be after i prove yall wrong about this. I have alot of knowledge about cars and some of yall not all should take into consideration what i have to say because one thing im not is a rookie. We are installing the charger next week and ill tell yall how it turns out. You know even if it doesnt work (wich it will) i will admit i was wrong and go on with a different project. Im not hoppin on anybodys case im just defending myself and the other people that yall dog on. Anyways ill keep yall updated. Thanks

[img]graemlins/toto.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/fluffy.gif[/img] he will never catch him. [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]