Supercharging/Turbocharging at the same time?

[RedbirdV6]

I am almost 100% sure this is impossible but I have been monitoring a discussion on another board and everybody who has posted says it is possible but they never give reasons to back up their claim. This is just not possible or even close to being a thought, is it How could you rig an intake to do this, you couldn't. I havn't got in on the discussion because 25 replys have said it is possible but I am thinking not. There is just no possible way. Please correct me if I am wrong [img]graemlins/dunce.gif[/img]

[Wicked 3800 V6]

NOT IMPOSSIBLE. One of the (can't call this thing rice) import folks (HKS?) offers a twingcharger for honda / acura that is a supercharger and a turbo charger. One helps out where the other falls short. Truly ingenious and unique.
Edit -- twincharger is the name of the system. It's two separate units, not one that does both. A supercharger, a turbo, a header, lots of piping
-Rob

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: Wicked 3800 V6 ]</p>

[camaro_zach]

wow, that would be sick. what it must be like to have money.

[Jason]

Its totally possible. I think SOME setups like that use a Roots type supercharger and a normal turbo i dunno how accurate that is though. You could use a Procharger and a turbo if you could fit them both.Ive seen Turbo Jetta owners slap a supercharger on thier car and off they go. I guess the SC gets the power to the wheels down low in the RPMS and the turbo gets it moving in the UPPER RPMS, or it might be the other way around. Either way you get the picture. Its just like the SUPRA sorta. 1 turbo is bigger than the other in some cases, not sure if its like that on ALL supras. But 1 turbo picks up the power early and when that one falls off the second turbo picks up its power high in the rpm range.

[RedbirdV6]

Uh, this is me I guess-----&gt; [img]graemlins/dunce.gif[/img] I guess when they say anything is possible they aren't kidding :D

[Camaro_hunter_d]

What would be better is a sequintial turbo system. You have a smaller say T3 as the initial booster. You then have the exhaust from that feeding a T4. The T3 will open up the off idle(1000-3500) and the T4 would kick in at 3000 through 7000.
How this would work is you have the smaller T3 set at say 12 PSI and the T4 at 17+ to your max setting. The T3 would get over run by the T4 at 12PSI and the added boost would bypass the lower boosting T3 and increase the PSI to the setting of the larger turbo. This would be better then the Turbo/Super set up.

[Ike]

why better?

[black98V6]

that's pretty wicked.. saw something the other day, can't remember if it was on horsepower tv or popular hot rodding tv, but it was a quad turbo, that's right 4 turbos feeding a V8 drag car. Guy wasn't gonna even bring it out till this season but he wanted to try and make a run on it at the end of last season.. talk about a wicked looking intake.. anyway thought I would throw that one into the ring..

[Camaro_hunter_d]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ike:
why better?<hr></blockquote>
Less work to get everything hooked up. A super/Turbo is contradictory. The super is ALWAYS putting out the desired boost. A turbo you can more fine tune.

A TURBO you can get better MPG cause you can turn down the boost on the city driving(and yes before a smart alick says you can do the same to the super charger I know that) BUT did you know that a turbo takes over 40 Percent LESS ENERGY to make ITS power? Yes folks its true. The maximum a turbo takes to make power is 8-10 percent. Compared to a Supercharger your lossing as much as 50! PERCENT. Thats a big difference.

The main appeal of the super charger is the powers right there no lag. Well guess what if a person does the endless math and gets a properly sized turbo for their car their IS NO LAG, or VERY LITTLE. Hense why you make a seqential instead of dual turbo. Yes seqential is kinda a dual/twin turbo, but not really. Dual is decribed as a turbo at each manifold. SEQUENTIAL is 1 larger turbo hooked to another smaller turbo in SERIES. meaning the smaller feeds the larger. as the smaller turbo runs outta gas the larger is already making boost to compensate and raising the bar pressure over the smaller one. In squential you ALWAYS want at least 700 RPM overlap of the smaller topping out and the larger starting up. This will help prevent a PSI "starvation". If properly sized and tuned just as the smaller is topping out (say 12 PSI)the larger is at midway(12 PSI) and climbing rapidly.
Do not worry about over boost. You do not add the 2 boost PSI's togeather. Thats the point of blow off valves and boost controllers. You have the smaller at 12 PSI. You have the throttle body tube blow off set at MAX PSI you want to run say 27. The valve will not open until 27.1 is reached. So the larger starts making 17-20-25 PSI. This Bosst will not hurt the smaller turbo, its contents are basically getting shoved outta the way by the larger turbo's output.

And PLEASE if you have a manual car get a intake tube blow off valve. If not you'll blow the bearings and seals outta the turbo. Those down shift can spike PSI pressures over 40 PSI! on the throttle plate as it closes, and all that boost gets back washed into the turbo.


And yes I saw that Quad turbo beast thats going into a Mercades? dragger I believe.

[Patrick Javert]

It would be pointless to have a procharger and a turbo setup. Why? because the procharger is essentially a turbo run off the crank. It doesn't make full boost until redline. Also, a sequential turbo setup isn't practical for our car because of the amount of tubing neccesary to tie the two banks together. A turbo off of each bank would be easier to run tubing from to an air-air intercooler( a ram air hood would help here with cooling off the air in the engine compartment) as wide/tall as possible with no more than 2-3 core thickness and at the top of it an outlet leading to the throttle body. Water/alcohol injection would also help if it were setup to spray before the air hit the intercooler so it could suck up as much heat as possible before being cooled to ambient temps. also allows for one or more of the following: more boost to be run, more spark advance, lower octane requirements, higher compression, or just more reliability.

[Camaro_hunter_d]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Patrick Javert:
It would be pointless to have a procharger and a turbo setup. Why? because the procharger is essentially a turbo run off the crank. It doesn't make full boost until redline. Also, a sequential turbo setup isn't practical for our car because of the amount of tubing neccesary to tie the two banks together. A turbo off of each bank would be easier to run tubing from to an air-air intercooler( a ram air hood would help here with cooling off the air in the engine compartment) as wide/tall as possible with no more than 2-3 core thickness and at the top of it an outlet leading to the throttle body. Water/alcohol injection would also help if it were setup to spray before the air hit the intercooler so it could suck up as much heat as possible before being cooled to ambient temps. also allows for one or more of the following: more boost to be run, more spark advance, lower octane requirements, higher compression, or just more reliability.<hr></blockquote>


Actually there is alot of room to run a sequential turbo set up. Your just looking at behind the rad, theres alot of other options for placing them.

And the tubing to tie the 2 banks togeather for 1 is the same for putting 2 sequential. You have 1 cross over that you mount to the smaller turbo. You then route that turbos spent exhaust gasses to the other turbo. easy. Look at a few turbo books. I am looking at one (mentioned above) that has the intercooler routed in front of the rad where it SHOULD be. Yoiu cut out the center section of the bumper and bumper cover where the license plate mounts too.

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: Camaro_hunter_d ]</p>

[Patrick Javert]

Actually, if I were to add an intercooler, I'd put it in front of the radiator since there is some room there. Now that I think about it, Our cars wouldn't ever need a twincharger setup because we don't go crazy into the upper powerbands(6250+) very often like imports/I4's/I6's. All we have to do is match a twin turbo or single turbo setup to our engines by doing the flow math.

[Dominic]

Heres the better way to do it...

Run the turbo off the exhaust as always, but dont spin an impeller, instead geardrive the crankshaft with it. Strap a blower on the front of the crank...

This is what the military does, in short.