i need a critique on my dream setup

[dashiftyfella]

ok ive been doin some reasearch on the board and on some literature sites and max boost book. i think ive got my setup fairly well thought out but can you guys fill in the gaps.

TURBO STUFF

1.turbonetics 60-1 bout 70% efficiency on the map at my intended cfm, A/R .7

2.modified headders or totally fabricated headers with cutout after turbo

3.according to my calculations at 15psi id need an intercooler that has an internal volume of 78 cubic inches, does anyone know how to find out an intercoolers internal volume

4. one of those cool computerized remote wastegates like apexi or gretty makes

KEEP TABS STUFF

5. fast or hopefully less expensive fmu

6. guages, boost, water temp, timing retard, i know there maybe others

7. smc alcohal injection kit, or very small nitrous shot, in case all else fails.

FUEL STUFF (definately need help here)

8> Walbro uhh i guess inline??????

9. 45lbs injectors?????? maybe????

10. 94 octane hopefully

ENGINE STUFF

11. wiseco pistons 8:1 comp ratio

12. girdle havent priced but i hear a machine shop can do em

13. home p&p on intake and heads

14. better oil pans

15. i think i need to imporve the oil gallies can a machine shop do that too?

Driveline

16. sombodies clutch

17. somebodies drive shaft

18. trans am rear

19. wildwood brakes ( does that belong in drivetrain??????)

OPERATOR

20. someone dumb enough to drive it

Ok guys tear me a new one

:D

[Arctc Wolf]

what calculations did you do for that size intercooler? also, what kind of design r u looking at? the thinner the intercooler, the larger the surface area and the better cooling it will do. also the design will also affect power numbers and boost numbers, as well as turbo lag. most intercooler places can tell u the internal volume of their ic's if they're worthwhile places, such as spearco. what kind of wastegate go u plan on running, internal or external? what ur talking about is a eclectronic boost controler that activates the wategate at the desired boost pressure. ur forgetting the actual unit, which doesn't usually come w/ the wastegate controler.

the 3 gauges u'll wanna have is air/fuel, boost, and fuel pressure. combining the information w/ the 3 of these gauges will allow for precise tuning. getting x fuel pressure at y boost w/ z air/fuel ratio, ect. after this, only an egt sensor would be desired to see how much u wanna advance/retard spark. advancing spark decreased exhaust temps, while retarding it will increase temps. also, more fuel means less temps and less fuel means higher temps. i'd do a small dry shot right after the intercooler, or directly on the intercooler.

in-tank pumps tend to be better. 255 lph or higher depending on desired power level. optimize the injectors with dyno tuning. u cn start very conservative and work ur way up. same goes w/ the fuel. lower boost won't require as much octane, but higher boost will require more, depending on how u tune ur car. u can tune it so that u always need 94 octane, no matter what rpm, based om air/fuel ratio, spark timing, and boost.

for the block and rotating assembly, intense makes a very good block for what u want. also, do u mean an engine girdle, because if u really wanted to, u can replace the k-member and custom fabricate one that will be stronger than stock and have that in the engine bay, and tie in a roll cage to it, if that's also in ur future.

trans-am rear ends are the same as ours. u'd be better off w/ a 12-bolt. wilwood brakes don't say which kind, the drag only kind, or the road race kind?

u've missed a ton of stuff, and so have I. I really don't feel like sending u my list of details of what I need to do to my car to make it race-ready, so all I will say to you is, research all of this a lot more.

[slow]

you don't need a FMU, if you go with larger injectors. But how are you going to tune for the 45 injectors

the AF gauges are basically pointless, so i would not bother with that, a EGT gauge would be better, with a fast probe.

Wilwood brakes are a good idea, but if you get the 6 piston, you can't run stock rims, or even any kind of skinnys.

Drag racing brakes, are a waste, some 98+ brakes should be fine, with decent pads, unless you get the 6 pistons.

Ryan.

[ January 23, 2004: Message edited by: slow ]</p>

[mattsv6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by slow:

the AF gauges are basically pointless, so i would not bother with that, a EGT gauge would be better, with a fast probe.


[ January 23, 2004: Message edited by: slow ]<hr></blockquote>

not true. you need too moniter the o2 sensors too make sure they are doing there job. right now i run 2 of them in my pillar pod. i only have them too make sure they are functioning all the time and you do actually get a reading from them once you go past 65% throttle position. it is something good too have and yes they are cool looking too. but i also run an egt, boost gauge, fuel pressure gauge, and an led light off the knock sensor wire too make sure that i am not knocking the motor to death.

as far as the intercooler goes, get a quality intercooler that fits in the area in front of the radiator duct or just run an fmic. 60-1 is a good choice for what you want too do, but i dont no where you got the 70% efficiency from. if you plan on runnign that much boost it would be more cost effective and more efficient too get a larger turbo like a t-series. or even a 62-1. it is all up too you man. and like arctic wolf said. ebc's jsut control the wastegate, they dont come with one and they arent one either.

and please dont run nitrous on the car unless it is spraying on the intercooler. if you spray too much in the motor and you are under hard boost it is all over and you are gonna have an expensive pile of crap under your hood. there are ways too do it but i suggest you go with a different method.

good luck,
\m/att

[dashiftyfella]

Arctic wolf the calcs i did for the intercooler, lets just remember i had a D in math when i was in high shcool, fig 5-13 in maximimum boost (i know alot of you have it) tells you flow rate by internal flow area and where you should possibly be, if i read it correctly. where do i look ato find the internal flow area at spearco. i need help with the type of design im looking at i kindof want a top mount with a custom hood but i think mounting it on the underside with a duct is the only fesable way to go but i gotta see what kind of space im working with. i have a camaro and would not like to cut out the front cause its a 94 and thatll look stupid. ive been studing my friends impreza and there is some cool heat sheilds between that and the engine and there is some ducting that runs the air through the intercooler right down the firewall. one of my friends works at a ricer shop soo i'll colaborate with him on that one ohh it was late when i was writing sooo i want to run an external wastegate <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>what ur talking about is a eclectronic boost controler that activates the wategate at the desired boost pressure. ur forgetting the actual unit <hr></blockquote> ok i figured i could say it vaguly and you guys would know what im talking about. tunig im totally lost on but ill get there
ohh and those wildwood brakes are huge my friends ws6 has the 6 pistons but i have some z06 18's on the way soo theyll fit i think you need 18s or larger to fit those brakes. the trans am rear has disks in the back soo thats y im goin in that direction. i dont think i can afford a strange or moser or somethin like that. ohh how do you guys think the m5'll hold?

thanx for the input guys hopefully my carll be apart less than a year :(

[mattsv6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dashiftyfella:
i need help with the type of design im looking at i kindof want a top mount with a custom hood but i think mounting it on the underside with a duct is the only fesable way to go but i gotta see what kind of space im working with. i have a camaro and would not like to cut out the front cause its a 94 and thatll look stupid. ive been studing my friends impreza and there is some cool heat sheilds between that and the engine and there is some ducting that runs the air through the intercooler right down the firewall. <hr></blockquote>


i have the front end cut out of my car and everyone seems too love it. you jsut cant hack it apart with a hammer and expect it too look good.

i messed with the idea of a topmount and it just wont work efficiently enough. that is why all the wrx's convert too a frontmount. the area about the motor is a hot area (heat rises and whatnot) and it is prone too heat soak from more then the intake charge air. i wouldnt do that if i were you, but it is still up too you.

if i were you i wouldnt worry too mcuh about looks on a turbo car, i would be more interested in the funcionality of the design and the parts you use. i am not giving you crap but i just think taht you need too look at the turbo setup in a different light.

good luck,
\m/att

[Arctc Wolf]

boost can be effected by many things. exhaust backpressure will affect boost, causing more cfm to create the same boost numbers u had b4 on a more restrictive exhaust. heads/cam, intakes, ect. will all have an effect on boost and cfm comparisons. i'd suggest fitting the largest intercooler that u can, wherever u plan on puting it, and then messing w/ designs to get the least pressure drop through it, as well as max cooling effect.

for placement, I'd suggest cutting out the area behind ur camaro's grill and having some ducting fabricated to direct it to the IC, radiator, A/C condenser, oil cooler, ect. a hood w/ heat extractors will help evacuate the heated air out of the engine bay, reducing temps underhood. Perhaps removing a lot of the junk in front of the radiator, such as the windshield washer resevoir, plastic shrouds, ect. will allow a good sized IC to be fir in there. I'd also space it a few inches away fromt he radiator, if u plan on using the air dam under the car to still help funnel even more cool air to the radiator, so it doesn't jsut get heat-soaked air from the IC all the time.

oh, and air/fuel gauges work well, only when used in conjunction with wideband O2 sensors, and when the computer is in closed-loop mode. A custom ems unit can have the O2 sensors on all the time after they are heated up, if desired, whether ur at 20% throttle or 95% throttle.

The LED connection to the knock sensor is a good idea. I wonder if you could monitor this and have it read out how many degrees of timing the engine is pulling using just a gauge? I know that dataloggers can do it, but not everyone wants to keep a laptop in their car.

I'd say that ur M5 will stand up longer than ur rear end will, assuming u get a good flywheel/clutch/pressure plate combo put into it. maybe getting the gears cryo'd and shotpeened would help even more. around 425 rwhp and good traction at launch, LS1's have been known to lose rear ends, so I'd really consider getting a 12-bolt put in, or else make sure that u don't punish the car too often or too hard till u do. A TA rear end girdle might help stave this gremlin off for a while.

[dashiftyfella]

how much are 12 bolts like 2 grand [img]graemlins/crybaby.gif[/img]

any software gurus out there id like for someone to build or program whatever a turbolink type of program thatll run on palm os. i think it would be cool to have a palm instead of a laptop monitoring your system. i dunno if it can be done.
ok soo the top mount if pretty much a bad idea huh? ive heard someone talking about a rear mount intercooler mod. damn that would give me soo much more play around room in the engine bay. who said that and hows it done?
uhh and also i need to start thinking about suspention upgrades. from what i hear if i just do a full 1LE suspention itll be fine, what do you guys think. my overall goal is to kill eveyone in the solo2's and road races. uhh and do you guys think i would benifit from a tt setup i think id like to stay single 60-1 any opinions/ suggestions on a fmu?

i want 15psi 350+ hp mid 13sec streetable, live in michigan so emissions arent really an issue

[slow]

air fuel gauges are useful... if run off a decent 02 sensor.

Stock narrow band sensors suck, and should not be used as a reliable source of tuning.

If you want a Airfuel gauge, that reads decent information, go to a wideband setup, or a egt gauge.


the 13" wilwood kit will run 17" wheels, (OEM anyways) My friend has them on his 00 WS6 Formula, 4 piston on the back, strange rear, and a 6 piston on the front, all behind SLP chrome WS6 rims. I was just saying, that if you really want to go all out, and run a set of drag rims, your going to have a hard time finding anything that will fit.

Ryan.

[Tyler]

what your thinking about is rear mount radiator.. which seems weird.. im sure its doable though..


if you can manage to ge the radiator in the back, then you have a lot more room to play with for the IC..


at 15 psi will easily get you 13's with half throttle.
:D

[dashiftyfella]

does anyone have information about rear mount intercoolers? also i think maybe i should back off the boost to about 7 psi to start and then work myway up. is there anything i need to know about bovs i like the hks sequential one.