FFF kit messing up the MAF reading

[ChronoGN]

Anyone else having this problem? From what my buddy told me, its because the intake pipe is all curved into the throttle body and messing up the air flow. The MAF reading is messing up the idle and making my car stall. Any solution for this?

[nocutt]

Use shorter MAF/change MAFs directionality/put your stock MAF infront of the turbo etc

[Teufel Hunden]

Nocutt, you'd have to put the entire TB infront of the turbo, as that's what the meter is calibrated for. You couldn't just move the element up there without recalibrating it.

The way you can fix the MAF issues with the FFF kit is to make the transition between the intake pipe and the TB alot smoother. This means rather than using an adapter fitting right there where they meet, make the entire pipe the same size as the TB opening, or before the pipe makes that last turn make the pipe bigger. It's very important that the pipe make the last turn with the same diameter as the TB. Also, leave the MAF screen in place.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

is your screen over the maf? and did you reset the computer ?

[cboney2003]

If you have a little money, you could have the stock maf post/sensor removed from the throttle body, the throttle body plugged and closed, use an SLP 85mm air meter and calibrate the computer, but thats some work.

[ChronoGN]

Originally posted by viper04af:
is your screen over the maf? and did you reset the computer ?

Nope, I don't have the screen on there anymore. That might be the part of the problem but I don't wanna put it back in.

[ChronoGN]

Originally posted by Teufel Hunden:
Nocutt, you'd have to put the entire TB infront of the turbo, as that's what the meter is calibrated for. You couldn't just move the element up there without recalibrating it.

The way you can fix the MAF issues with the FFF kit is to make the transition between the intake pipe and the TB alot smoother. This means rather than using an adapter fitting right there where they meet, make the entire pipe the same size as the TB opening, or before the pipe makes that last turn make the pipe bigger. It's very important that the pipe make the last turn with the same diameter as the TB. Also, leave the MAF screen in place.

Yea, thats what I am thinking would fix the problem. Everything was fine when I had the SLP CAI in and the pipe on those expands before it actually goes into the throttle body. The intake pipe on the FFF kit is small in diameter all the way up to the throttle body. Its a poor designing on their part.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

umm un hook the tube and see if it runs.......

[Teufel Hunden]

Originally posted by ChronoGN:
That might be the part of the problem but I don't wanna put it back in.

Actually that's probably 60% of your problem. The screen is alot more important than most people think. If you don't want to put it back in, then you're going to have to live with certain problems depending on what your intake setup looks like.

[nocutt]

Nocutt, you'd have to put the entire TB infront of the turbo, as that's what the meter is calibrated for. You couldn't just move the element up there without recalibrating it.

True and Not true :D
We did one about 6 yrs ago with this setup, come to find out we could have gotten our MAF from www.splitsec.com
Anywayz we went to the boneyard pulled a MAF/TB from a w-body N/A and removed the TB blocked all the uneccessary passages, we cut the post holding the sample tube but left the screen intact. Car ran and idled like a champ...of course we have several aftermarket wayz to get the task done today...anywayz I am 101% sure this MAFs have a higher range than the "true MAFs"...like I have said int he past either our MAFs are configured for a blow-thru or put the darn thing infront of the turbo...
Just from my experience [img]graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]
Also on another note, I am thinking out loud here...what if the MAF tube (charge) is "venturied" into the MAF/tb itself? This will give time for the air to expand in the MAF (chamber) and allow for more readability? T-H what say you?

[ August 07, 2005, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: nocutt ]

[Teufel Hunden]

Originally posted by nocutt:
Also on another note, I am thinking out loud here...what if the MAF tube (charge) is "venturied" into the MAF/tb itself? This will give time for the air to expand in the MAF (chamber) and allow for more readability? T-H what say you?

It wouldn't really be worth the effort with the stock TB. However, if you used a remote MAF, and got rid of the crappy integral setup, then i think these cars would benefit greatly from a MAF with a venturi and a better flowing TB. That would also work very well on an FI car with a draw through MAF. I assume you're familiar with the Pro-M 80mm MAF.... it's still our best seller. The venturi can't be beat http://www.massairsystems.com/80Short.jpg

[nocutt]

Originally posted by Teufel Hunden:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by nocutt:
Also on another note, I am thinking out loud here...what if the MAF tube (charge) is "venturied" into the MAF/tb itself? This will give time for the air to expand in the MAF (chamber) and allow for more readability? T-H what say you?

It wouldn't really be worth the effort with the stock TB. However, if you used a remote MAF, and got rid of the crappy integral setup, then i think these cars would benefit greatly from a MAF with a venturi and a better flowing TB. That would also work very well on an FI car with a draw through MAF. I assume you're familiar with the Pro-M 80mm MAF.... it's still our best seller. The venturi can't be beat http://www.massairsystems.com/80Short.jpg </font>[/QUOTE]T-H since we are forcing air...the TB is PLENTY enough IMO, the problem I see is guys running 85MM Mass Air Flows and having to shrink back down to ~76mm...lol!!
Our MAF/TB uses the venturi effect already, behind the TB though...if you pick up our MAF and look underneath you will see it trying to taper...what I am proposing is...what if we created a venturi in front of the TB? eg rather than have a 3" straight pipe (charge) hit the MAF...we use say from the up-pipe (IC outlet) 2.5" and then about 6-8" away from the MAF/TB we start increasing the size...sorta like a cone till we get to 3" then into the MAF/tb. This way we can make the air expand better when it hits the MAF/TB...the side effect is more pressure drop though :( how much? it seems hard to say...Although you do get pressure drop anywayz, but I am not sure if this idea negates the whole thing? Maybe if we had a bigger MAF to start with say 3.5" which is actually what we really need in other to avoid running out of calibration...ok I am blabbering now ;)

[Teufel Hunden]

Originally posted by nocutt:
T-H since we are forcing air...the TB is PLENTY enough IMO, the problem I see is guys running 85MM Mass Air Flows and having to shrink back down to ~76mm...lol!!
Our MAF/TB uses the venturi effect already, behind the TB though...if you pick up our MAF and look underneath you will see it trying to taper...what I am proposing is...what if we created a venturi in front of the TB? eg rather than have a 3" straight pipe (charge) hit the MAF...we use say from the up-pipe (IC outlet) 2.5" and then about 6-8" away from the MAF/TB we start increasing the size...sorta like a cone till we get to 3" then into the MAF/tb. This way we can make the air expand better when it hits the MAF/TB...the side effect is more pressure drop though :( how much? it seems hard to say...Although you do get pressure drop anywayz, but I am not sure if this idea negates the whole thing? Maybe if we had a bigger MAF to start with say 3.5" which is actually what we really need in other to avoid running out of calibration...ok I am blabbering now ;)

What you're suggesting is actually the correct way of going about it. That's what you're supposed to do to ensure a smooth airflow across the meter. But, we have found that it definitely helps (alot) if the pipe is increased to the same size as the MAF several inches before the air enters. My intake pipe is 2.5" and makes the final turn the same diameter as the TB.

[ChronoGN]

Originally posted by Teufel Hunden:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ChronoGN:
That might be the part of the problem but I don't wanna put it back in.

Actually that's probably 60% of your problem. The screen is alot more important than most people think. If you don't want to put it back in, then you're going to have to live with certain problems depending on what your intake setup looks like. </font>[/QUOTE]So, putting it back in might fix the problem? I just heard that you should take those things out if you are running Forced Induction.

[Teufel Hunden]

Originally posted by ChronoGN:
So, putting it back in might fix the problem? I just heard that you should take those things out if you are running Forced Induction.

Putting it back in will help alot, but the way the intake pipe meets the TB will always hurt you as long as it stays that way. You need the screen and a better intake pipe to smooth out a good majority of your problem. Removing the screen period, especially if you're changing the whole intake pipe and forcing a ton of air through it is never a good idea.