OKAY HERE THEY ARE! THE ROUGH DRAFT PROCHARGER PICS. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!?!?!

[SkyHawk]

I talked to Bill yesterday and he told me that I can post this for the other 9 beta testers. Here are some of the questions I asked, it might help some of you others that have the same mods. As far as the Whisper Lid is concerned, he said that it should work with the piping and tubing that he is going to go with, but would have to see pics of it or would rather see a car with one already installed. I might take a pic of mine and send it to him, so if he can see how it mounts. The SLP CAI might be a problem because he said they are located primarily in the same place but once again wants to see a pic before he go's ahead and says it won't work. The Jet chip/module definatley can't be installed with the SC. Bill said everything should be mounted this weekend and start the "drivability" testing next week. He will then know if the PCM programming will be manditory or optional. He say's right now it's looking like the PCM's will need programmed to keep the fans on all the time and just not at idle and also for some other additional things, like mods and etc. And as far as the release date, Bill said, he is shooting for mid February to start releasing the kits as he makes them. The next couple of weeks he is concentrating on testing out the SC with drivability (under normal circumstances) then will push the psi up gradually to the highest, but where its still safe for the engine.
I got all the info. from Bill when I talked to him last. BATMAN if something I stated is wrong or you heard otherwise, please correct me. But big props to BATMAN and Bill for putting in their time and effort and looking forward to the completion of this thing. I'M PUMPED. [img]graemlins/fluffy.gif[/img]

[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: SkyHawk ]</p>

[Kidinthehall2001]

[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Silver00]

ok,initially the PCM reprogramming was optional...now it may be mandatory? if it is can I withdraw and get my 300 deposit back? that was not part of the contract and that is why I ask. let me know please or do I need to contact Bill? or if anyone wishes to purchase my spot they are more than welcome to.

Silver00

[Dirty8-un-Dreds]

Will the wings west W-type front air damn interfere with the kit at all. I have it inmy garage but if it will make the kit not work then ill sell it off. If you want pics go to www.wingswest.com and look for the 98 + body kits w-type.

[Steve Presley]

Here are pics of my Volant CAI.. Can I still use it, or should I sell it off?

volant pics

BTW, lookin' good.. thanks for all of the hard work Batman and Bill.

[MachPerformance]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Silver00:
ok,initially the PCM reprogramming was optional...now it may be mandatory? if it is can I withdraw and get my 300 deposit back? that was not part of the contract and that is why I ask. let me know please or do I need to contact Bill? or if anyone wishes to purchase my spot they are more than welcome to.

Silver00<hr></blockquote>


The part of the contrat that you agreed upon that Batman setup, was to be a beta tester. This PCM program that we initially thought to be optional has become apparent to me that it's to be mandatory for the following reasons:

We need the fans to cycle on-off at 170 on and 160 off. Current settings are 210 on and 195 off. That's why those of you who put a 160 stat in will never see 160, the fans are controlling the temp.

The trans calibration needs to be addressed. The shift points will need to be addressed when under part throttle and say 0-1 psi or else the trans will stack shift and you will be in overdrive lockup at 40 mph

Also in the trans cal, the force motor that controls line pressure to the trans will have to be increased for the increased power you will be making. This insures that the clutches and bands will have positive engagement and not poise any trans durability issues. Basically we are going to supplement your trans table for a modifed LS1 table.

Also DTC 101 and 103 need to be turned off and the Maf freq raised to 15K mghz so DTC 103 is not thrown.

there are more things we will do in the cal but those are just some things we will have to do to ensure proper operation.

[Silver00]

I looked @ my receipt and nowhere does it mention the "ONCE OPTIONAL, NOW MANDATORY" PCM Tuning. What it does say is...and this is verbatim:

"-Upon Completion of R&D of 3.8L Procharger Kit, it will be released to the Beta Testers only for 4196.00+shipping, less $350.00. Amount of $3846.00+ shipping will be owned within 90 days of this Beta release date."

So technically, and if you want to get all legal and what not I'm sure that what we purchase from you should only cost the testers $3846.00+ shipping. As the "legal and binding" receipt you mailed out reads. Please enlighten me Bill as I'm confused.

Silver00

[MrCoffee]

still some real issues need to be addressed before all this 'legal' BS goes down. Right now he's just assuming its madatory. BUT if someone were to gave the manuel fan switch, couldnt that take care of the fan problem. As far as the shifting and trans thats just theory. Remember, batman is gonna drive this thing around for a few months or weeks or whatever whjile the other kits are being developed. So just calm down and let them figure this stuff out, before all this talk goes into rants and raves.

[Arctc Wolf]

the shift points and line pressure wouldn't have 2 be messed w/ if u purchased a race-prepped transmission, would it? Bill, u mentioned a updated LS1 table. Do the LS1's use a different shift table as we do? Also, if the fans will go on that low, wouldn't a 160* thermostat help keep everything cooler?

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Silver00:
ok,initially the PCM reprogramming was optional...now it may be mandatory? if it is can I withdraw and get my 300 deposit back? that was not part of the contract and that is why I ask. let me know please or do I need to contact Bill? or if anyone wishes to purchase my spot they are more than welcome to.

Silver00<hr></blockquote>

Dude, you are such a PITA... why can't you be patient like everyone else. If you really want the kit without the PCM tuning, don't expect to run the same amount of boost as everyone else. I haven't had a chance to talk to BIll this week, but i am planning to tell him that if the cal can be avoided by including a fan switch mod (a switch to keep the fans on at all times) then to try looking into that instead of making tuning manditory. Tell you what though... i am tight for money right now, but the first 300.00 i can save up, I am sending it to you so i can get you off the fricken list. With all the whining and grief, you don't deserve this kit or to be a beta tester. :mad:

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Arctc Wolf:
the shift points and line pressure wouldn't have 2 be messed w/ if u purchased a race-prepped transmission, would it? Bill, u mentioned a updated LS1 table. Do the LS1's use a different shift table as we do? Also, if the fans will go on that low, wouldn't a 160* thermostat help keep everything cooler?<hr></blockquote>


Remember there are other solutions that you can do to compinsate for the cal, but whats going to cost more in the end? The cal, or all the after market things you need to buy and install to do the same thing the cal does.

As far as the 160 Thermostat, I have that already and it does no good... instead its hurting me. The stock cal is programmed to turn the fan on at 195. All the 160 thermostat does is start circulatiing coolant through the engine. Now imagine whats going to happen. As soon as the thermostat hits 160 the coolant starts running through the engine however the fans don't kick in till 195 (what the cal is calibrated it) so what you endup doing is circulating warm/hot coolant in your engine from the time the thermostat hit 160 to the time it hit 195. Normally the collant wouldn't circulate till the thermostat hit 195 and the fans would kick on at the same time keeping the coolant cool. With the cal set to 160, the fans will be on at the same time the coolant is circulated at a much lower temp. YES the manual fan switch mod is a great option and i am going to mention it to BIll, however it will not take care of all the other mods the cal is going to do.

Yes i know what your thinking, what about the Hypertech programmers...well the only thing is we don't know what the hypertech Cal does. They didn't make those calibrations for the kit Bill is making so we have no idea what kind of affect it has. That and the programmer from Hypertech is 300.00 ...why not just pay the extra 200.00 and be able to sleep with a peace of mind.

[strobhen]

talked to batman about this, just posting here so maybe Bill sees it and sparks an idea.

I like the way the intercooler is set up, just looks like it needs a modified or redesigned air dam to work correctly, or better.

Remove the old air dam -- give the intercooler room to move up farther from the ground just a tad, then put a redesigned one on the bottom of the intercooler -- could even get creative and make it so it routes the air that doesn't go through the intercooler (on either side where the duct is) to the radiator a tad better.

Would raise the cost of the kit, but it would also help route more air through the intercooler and radiator.

[v6maro]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BATMAN:


Dude, you are such a PITA... why can't you be patient like everyone else. If you really want the kit without the PCM tuning, don't expect to run the same amount of boost as everyone else. I haven't had a chance to talk to BIll this week, but i am planning to tell him that if the cal can be avoided by including a fan switch mod (a switch to keep the fans on at all times) then to try looking into that instead of making tuning manditory. Tell you what though... i am tight for money right now, but the first 300.00 i can save up, I am sending it to you so i can get you off the fricken list. With all the whining and grief, you don't deserve this kit or to be a beta tester. :mad: <hr></blockquote>

*Applauds* to BATMAN.
-Steve

[ZYA_LTR]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BATMAN:


Dude, you are such a PITA... why can't you be patient like everyone else. If you really want the kit without the PCM tuning, don't expect to run the same amount of boost as everyone else. I haven't had a chance to talk to BIll this week, but i am planning to tell him that if the cal can be avoided by including a fan switch mod (a switch to keep the fans on at all times) then to try looking into that instead of making tuning manditory. Tell you what though... i am tight for money right now, but the first 300.00 i can save up, I am sending it to you so i can get you off the fricken list. With all the whining and grief, you don't deserve this kit or to be a beta tester. :mad: <hr></blockquote>


Ryan, hello ,it's Jason, what's happenning? it looks like things are going bad herem so i will agree with your above statement, and tell you this, Bill also agree's but will go one step further, since this gentleman(and i use the term loosely) has such a problem with the way that the kit is being designed, and the lengths that are being taken to insure we have a sellable and safe to use kit, then we will solve his problem right now for him.

Bill said for this guy to call the shop @ 586-468-6300 to speak to Bill, and give him his Mailing address, and Bill personally will refund his money, and purchase his spot. This much hassle and bickering from someone who is supposed to be here to help us out, is not needed or appreciated, it definetely doesn't make you feel very willing to spend hours upon hours designing a kit, for guy sthat aren't going to support his Beta testing, or his ability. And as for the gentlman that doesn't have any faith in the abilities in our shop, that is your personal opinion, you are entitled to it definetely, but you need not be so rude, and normally, prople have some sort of proof or evidence to support there arguement. You have none except for the fact that this kit isn't available fast enough for you, obviously if other poeple/companies thought there was such a huge market for it, they would have built a kit, since the 3800 has been used since 1997. Yes we do apreciate/understand that we have a $40,000 venture here, but in the same token, we build $50,000 offshore catamaran race motors in pairs for customers who do not bicker and disrespect us, so you do the math, which is a smarter venture to undertake, a 40,000 dollar pissing contest with people who are supposed to be supproting the fact that we are taking our time to design a quality kit, or the 100,000 venture from an offshore racer that wants his stuff built right, to wi, at any cost, which we have done over and over again. Just ask around at any of the offshore races, or the S-Series boards, and see if they is a lack of faith in anything that Mach Performance builds or designs, you'll be hard pressed to find negative opinions. You just have to be willing to be patient to get a quality product that will both last, and provide you with the safe performance that you money deserves.

Thank you for you time fella's
Have a nice day

Jason
Mach Performance
Shop Technician
Fellow F-Body owner

[ January 13, 2003: Message edited by: ZYA_LTR ]

[ January 13, 2003: Message edited by: ZYA_LTR ]</p>

[strobhen]

*Applauds Batman, Jason & Bill*

Please, do it & Steve, whip out some madd programming skilz [img]tongue.gif[/img] and block silver00 from posting, or even looking in any topic that has procharger in the title.

I think that would make everyone happy, we don't have to listen and he doesn't have to read about how fast everyone is going. :D [img]graemlins/toto.gif[/img]