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  • General information on the shortcomings and usefullness of the sts turbo system

    Ok i have seen that this has become a hot subject lately so i thought i would go ahead and give a general info post on this setup.

    How it works

    the sts turbo system is a remote turbo system. This means it is located at or near the end of the exhaust pipe. This makes mounting much easier. It then uses a pipe from the cold side of the turbo to run all the way from the rear of the car to the front and into the intake. they say this long distance allows the intake charge to cool but it is not near as efficient as an intercooler or meth injection.

    The shortcomings

    Because of where the turbo is located it does not take advantage of the hotter more expanded gasses near the initial discharge from the engine. instead since it is located near the rear it gets cooler denser air passing through it. this is not efficient. To compensate for this a smaller turbo size must be used so it can spool up in a decent amount of time. This however causes even more backpressure on the exhaust. another problem with using a smaller turbo is it can not move the same cfm as a larger turbo nor can it produce the same boost pressure a larger one can before getting out of its efficiency range. Also the long distance the exhaust has to travle to reach the turbo and then the long distance the charged air has to travle to the MAF only increase lag. this contributes to the extremely lopsided dyno graph that these systems produce, it is very similar to what a supra's dyno looks like with an extremely oversized turbo. Another problem is that since no cooling system is used other than the length of the charged air line the air is still quite hot and has an increased threat of detination over an intercooled setup or a meth injection setup.

    Actual usefullness

    for the 1/4 mile this setup is not worth the money. by the time you spool up you will probably be about half way through the race and be playing catch up. for the road course this is not very useful either because by the time you spool you will be slowing down for the next turn. for highway racing this is your setup since you will already be close to spool and just be able to add the extra umph for a quick race to 100. other than this the setup is more of a bragging rights/ show peice/ just to be different. It has too many shortcomings to compare it to even an improperly setup standard turbo system.

    i hope this post helped shed light on this subject and help you with your decicion and unerstanding of turbo systems [img]smile.gif[/img]
    2001 Arctic White Firebird With Black Drop Top<br /><br />3:42 Gears<br />Zexel LSD<br />BMR upper A-Arms<br />Trans Am exhaust with 3\" I-pipe and cutout<br />Modified intake<br />Mecham Hood<br />Trans Go shift kit<br />Making rear control arms and panhard

  • #2
    Some high points from there site...
    "Most components under the hood of today's vehicles were not designed to operate at this temperature."
    Maybe if you have a ford with plastic belt pullys. All the (real) turbo cars on this site look like there doing ok.

    "A remote mounted turbo runs cooler, with no additional lag and requires no major modifications to your vehicle."
    We all have enough sence to know that hot is more efficient, so I don't have to get into that.
    No modifications, for up to 5psi of hot boost ok it can be done. But when you want more power hot boost will blow the engine.
    "Mounting the turbo system remotely has several key advantages, including increased performance, better gas mileage and a short install time."
    #1 h3ll no, #2 don't know but my guess is no, and a big YES on #3.
    "Denser exhaust gasses drive the turbo turbine wheel more efficiently."
    Fluid dynamics people. They write hole books on this stuff. Insted of heat to do most of the work they drive the compressor wheel with shear pressure. Why does a turbo have 1500-1600'F temps going in and 1100-1200'F going out while boosting?

    "Cooler oil to the turbo. Cool oil is better for both the turbo and engine."
    They make oil coolers for that too.
    I have to go to work now.
    \'85 Z28, T-tops new LG4 and TH700<br />\'85 3.4L 5-speed<br />mods: <a href=\"http://www.cardomain.com/id/oil_pan_4\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.cardomain.com/id/oil_pan_4</a> the nitrous exhaust O2 safety, pg 3. <br />Areo space materal engineer wantabe

    Comment


    • #3
      Seems like everybody wants to "bring the pain" about the remote style of turbocharging still. Everything above is true. Here are the main points you have to remember regardless of physics, science, opinion, etc. 1)It is not a
      serious longterm reliable street kit. 2) It ain't worth the money asked for it. 3)The actual performance varies depending on the vehicle you
      put it on, and some of the dynos are misleading.
      4) It does work for its intended purpose. 5) If it did not work then people would not be purchasing it. 6) There are many more "pros" to this setup than cons, and it does not take a
      rocket scientist to understand the concept.
      7) Having some boost is better than no boost. 8)
      If you truly question the performance then ask someone who has one installed it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ok then what are these pros you speak of? i am more than willing to listen but i have yet to hear any and all the physics i have taken says this is the most inefficient way to do a turbo system you can buy. List the pro's in the way i listed the cons and i will listen but prepare for me and probably some others to explain why those pros dont really outway its weeknesses. Also your point about "some boost is better than none" would usually be true but they proved with their 396 car that it wasnt, in fact a have seen a 383 outperform that and all it had was the stroker, a cam, and better valvesprings.
        2001 Arctic White Firebird With Black Drop Top<br /><br />3:42 Gears<br />Zexel LSD<br />BMR upper A-Arms<br />Trans Am exhaust with 3\" I-pipe and cutout<br />Modified intake<br />Mecham Hood<br />Trans Go shift kit<br />Making rear control arms and panhard

        Comment


        • #5
          1. Ease of instllation and removal
          2. Yes I have it, and mileage does not decrease until you stomp it for boost.
          3. Anytime you run oil through 10-12 ft of lines the temp does decrease so coking is never a problem.
          4. You can do it yourself with no major fabrication and cost.
          5. The charge air is not very "hot" as you claimed it to be because of the length of the tubes
          6. "LAG" as you claim it is really only at max
          of .5 sec. Mine hit boost at 2000 rpm and up. It is no different from a normal setup in the fact that you must select the "proper" turbine
          to make it work efficiently.
          7. For the last time "backpressure" as everyone
          says will be a factor of what additional modifications are complete to the exhaust setup.
          The further the turbo is away the less backpressure overall. Performance headers and catalytic converter, but smaller the turbo the more pressure in the upper RPMS. A good
          combination of compressor and turbine wheel makes
          all the difference.
          8. You can install or make your own Meth/alcohol
          injection for dirt cheap and have better intercooling than a FMIC. Which will cool better
          Methanol/Alcohol spray or Air to air?
          9. If you have an Automatic Tranny then you can decrease lag by going with a high stall converter.
          Mine is rated at 2700 stall speed.
          10. If you still don't value the performance or respect what this system can do then why don't you and anybody else just line up with an lt1
          or ls1 powered car on the street. Unfair? OK,
          compare the power to a 3800 powered remote kit.
          But I forgot that nobody else has one for our cars.

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh, by the way, T-Punk, My whining is not coming
            from underneath my hood.... Would you still like
            to hear it? :D

            Comment


            • #7
              [soapbox on]The real truth about the STS is that if you do not have data to back up your point then you have invalidated what the original thread would suggest...
              All this "turbo gurus" are starting to bore me...you cannot just assume because your PHYSICS ASSUMES it wouldn't work...it is written on stone!
              Yes by the time the 'gas' gets to the tailpipe then less expansion would have created insufficient "heat" to spin the turbine...however your PHYSICS also says the turbine needs volume... :rolleyes:
              Both pros and cons in regards to the 3800 STS are moot points IMHO...somebody do one already and post results NOT opinions...
              We were told by many "turbo Gurus" that our twincharged system on a 3800 would never work well enough...well we defied PHYSICS, or is it the "turbo gurus"? We put over 400ft/lb TQ on an S1, non-ic'd...tuned with 14.5psi of pk boost! that is blowing the supposedly "hot air" into an M62...so called "gurus" ?
              you can put a relatively hotside small housing with a slightly big turbine wheel and a big Comp. housing and still be within the efficiency isle...Nobody is stating it is a kick *** setup...however it is cheap, streetable and even C.A.R.B friendly...what is the matter with you ppl? When things are different haters start to emerge from every nook and cranny...if ppl took the time to support one another...the V6 Fbody would have gone places about this time, it is a great platform,believe it or not!?!?...the irony is the FWD are the ones blazing trails :rolleyes:
              [/soap box off]
              THE ORIGINAL 3800SII turbo...<b><i>NOW SERIES-III</i></b>

              Comment


              • #8
                get me a time slip, i would like to see how you do. a Dyno graph would be nice too when you get the money. I still think a standard system will perform better and from what you just said the only advantage this seems to actually have over a standard is the fact that it is easier to fab and install. All the other points you have will still fall short of a typical turbo setup. When i get mine done I will make a road trip so we can have a good comparison at the track ;)
                2001 Arctic White Firebird With Black Drop Top<br /><br />3:42 Gears<br />Zexel LSD<br />BMR upper A-Arms<br />Trans Am exhaust with 3\" I-pipe and cutout<br />Modified intake<br />Mecham Hood<br />Trans Go shift kit<br />Making rear control arms and panhard

                Comment


                • #9
                  haha, yes i would still like to hear it.
                  2001 Arctic White Firebird With Black Drop Top<br /><br />3:42 Gears<br />Zexel LSD<br />BMR upper A-Arms<br />Trans Am exhaust with 3\" I-pipe and cutout<br />Modified intake<br />Mecham Hood<br />Trans Go shift kit<br />Making rear control arms and panhard

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by T-Punk:
                    get me a time slip, i would like to see how you do. a Dyno graph would be nice too when you get the money. I still think a standard system will perform better and from what you just said the only advantage this seems to actually have over a standard is the fact that it is easier to fab and install. All the other points you have will still fall short of a typical turbo setup. When i get mine done I will make a road trip so we can have a good comparison at the track ;)
                    Let me post my own opinion now...the sts will have a better output than the typical SC...# 4 #!!
                    THE ORIGINAL 3800SII turbo...<b><i>NOW SERIES-III</i></b>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have suggested the same possibility, but yes it
                      does seem to perform better on 8 cylinder lt1/ls1
                      basic systems. You probably need to run against them to make sure. There is no documented success
                      for our vehicles yet.

                      I fully acknowledge that a front mounted unit will outperform even the best tuned remote system.
                      The question is by how much?
                      I promise that I will get a professional dyno test
                      too. It makes no sense to rely on just a Gtech
                      unit. There is also a track out here in Millingtion, TN that charges about $15.00 to run.
                      Once setup we will have to meet. I got a guy
                      in a SRT-4 and a turbo 240 SX which are more than
                      willing to spank me. ;)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ever notice that when you let your car idle, there's water dripping out of your tailpipes? When you turn your engine off, guess where some of that water is going to collect? ;)
                        1998 Camaro, Arctic White<br /><br />Garrett P-Trim T04 turbo<br /><br /><i>348rwhp, 379.5rwtq @ 10psi</i>

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't really think that the water will "collect"
                          anywhere enough to do major damage. The turbo should be durable enough to withstand this problem if it arises. The exhaust should make any condensation exit the tailpipe after the turbo while it is moving.
                          It is not like the turbo is inundated with liquid.
                          This is a longterm durability issue. So is the fact that you have corrosion on the inside of the
                          pipes to the turbo. You can always take the car to a muffler shop and have them rebuild the pipes
                          from the collectors back to the turbo. I am for just keeping it basic until a problem arises. Hey,
                          worry more about a chunk of the Cat messing up the turbine instead of corrosion. I have a high flow unit instead of stock. It is a good idea to
                          check for exhaust leaks using a stethescope before
                          using this type of kit.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by T-Punk:
                            get me a time slip, i would like to see how you do. a Dyno graph would be nice too when you get the money. I still think a standard system will perform better and from what you just said the only advantage this seems to actually have over a standard is the fact that it is easier to fab and install. All the other points you have will still fall short of a typical turbo setup. When i get mine done I will make a road trip so we can have a good comparison at the track ;)
                            A fellow on this site runs faster NA with his stock shortblock L36 than 95% of all the power adder cars on this site...Does this mean that turbos, bblowers, and nitrous are all the wrong way of going fast? This whole thread sucks because all but one or two of you are simply guessing. Fact is, if these "dyno queens" make the power on the rollers, with a good driver, they will make the timeslip too. It's a newer design, give the timeslips a little time.
                            <a href=\"http://www.fullthrottlev6.com\" target=\"_blank\">www.fullthrottlev6.com</a> THE SOURCE!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A fellow on this site runs faster NA with his stock shortblock L36 than 95% of all the power adder cars on this site...Does this mean that turbos, bblowers, and nitrous are all the wrong way of going fast? This whole thread sucks because all but one or two of you are simply guessing. Fact is, if these "dyno queens" make the power on the rollers, with a good driver, they will make the timeslip too. It's a newer design, give the timeslips a little time
                              [img]graemlins/rock.gif[/img]
                              The condensation issue is lost in the wind really...don't all turbos sit in the same exhaust path? So because it is further down means what exactly?...
                              THE ORIGINAL 3800SII turbo...<b><i>NOW SERIES-III</i></b>

                              Comment

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