Custom Remote Kit success.

[nocutt]

Boyd,
Real quick...no flame! but I think you will start to pedal backwards if you aren't concrete on some of your items.
Be sure your injectors are 28.8lbers...I am sure the LS1's are still smaller than that and the LT1's are definately 24#. Also skewing the MAF translator to up %15+/- will not work on the stock MAF...either you get a bigger MAF and/or bigger injector...however I don't think the MAF translator will work with anything over 30lb, without drivability issues...the MAF only goes from 0-5v nothing beyond that...(you might get away with a bigger MAF?)...
Also why JET chip? Don't those things have an advanced timing table? Yes I know you can pull back timing with the translator+ but since you cannot run too much timing anywayz the whole point seems counter productive...

[phoenix64]

Originally posted by GN-T66:
Are you running an intercooler? If not, that is why you're seeing knock at 10 psi. FWIW, it seems most people arent seeing knock on these motors, even on the stock tune at 10 psi. You certainly shouldnt be with timing pulled out of it. You should really think about investing in a cooler or at least methanol injection, because using the intermediate pipe on the STS just wont cut it. good luck with it.

Who's not seeing knock on the stock tune? I saw 15* the first time I mashed the gas. Even with the intercooler on it now, and driving around in sub zero temps, I'm still pulling as much as 8* to stop knock.

And Boyd do you have a stick or an auto?

[ January 19, 2005, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: phoenix64 ]

[nocutt]

Originally posted by phoenix64:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GN-T66:
Are you running an intercooler? If not, that is why you're seeing knock at 10 psi. FWIW, it seems most people arent seeing knock on these motors, even on the stock tune at 10 psi. You certainly shouldnt be with timing pulled out of it. You should really think about investing in a cooler or at least methanol injection, because using the intermediate pipe on the STS just wont cut it. good luck with it.

Who's not seeing knock on the stock tune? I saw 15* the first time I mashed the gas. Even with the intercooler on it now, and driving around in sub zero temps, I'm still pulling as much as 8* to stop knock.

And Boyd do you have a stick or an auto? </font>[/QUOTE]Depends...physics says it should happen regardless, but the last 3800 turbo fiero we did had no knock...stock tune? The car had a big turbo (t4 with a 70A/R on +/-)...NO INTERCOOLER, however we used a MAF recalibrator, 30lb injector and LS1 MAF...I will add that we used homebrew for fuel octane [img]smile.gif[/img]

[OneQuickV6]

Originally posted by CM boyd:
I purchased the fuel injectors from Texas Speed &
Performance. They had a sale on the Bosch OEM
style injectors designed for the lt1/ls1 (I think
they might be for the LS1). They are rated at 28.8 lbs, and they bolt straight on to the v6 fuel
rail harness. I am using a JET CPU chip and MAF Translator for tuning but the stock CPU has no problem adjusting to the extra fuel.
They still sell the injectors for $100 for a set of 8. You can get six for about $75.00

Just so everyone knows, if you buy the injectors still on the LS1 fuel rail, the set of 8 plus the rail is only $60!! Whereas 8 inejctors alone is $100. Take the injectors off the LS1 rail, and save yourself $40!!!

[Radcat]

Originally posted by OneQuickV6:
Just so everyone knows, if you buy the injectors still on the LS1 fuel rail, the set of 8 plus the rail is only $60!! Whereas 8 inejctors alone is $100. Take the injectors off the LS1 rail, and save yourself $40!!!

Or just buy some used 36lb GTP injectors for around $50?

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by phoenix64:
Who's not seeing knock on the stock tune? I saw 15* the first time I mashed the gas. Even with the intercooler on it now, and driving around in sub zero temps, I'm still pulling as much as 8* to stop knock.

Teufel Hunden's car sees no appreciable knock at 10+psi on pump gas. This has been verified via some real time runs with a scanner hooked up [img]smile.gif[/img]

CM Boyd.... ditch the translator and the Jet chip. the stock tune is pretty resilliant on these cars, and the PCM can likely do a better job than you can at this point. And also, I still dont think without an FMU that those injectors and the translator can provide enough fuel for your car, which would indeed cause knock.

[Teufel Hunden]

Originally posted by GN-T66:
Teufel Hunden's car sees no appreciable knock at 10+psi on pump gas. This has been verified via some real time runs with a scanner hooked up [img]smile.gif[/img]

CM Boyd.... ditch the translator and the Jet chip. the stock tune is pretty resilliant on these cars, and the PCM can likely do a better job than you can at this point. And also, I still dont think without an FMU that those injectors and the translator can provide enough fuel for your car, which would indeed cause knock.

Yeah, 10psi is no issue for my car at all. I don't usually see any knock until 15psi, because at that point fuel delivery becomes an issue.

I also agree with getting rid of the translator and the jet chip.. IMO they're probably only hurting you in the long run.

[T-Punk]

ditch the translator and jet chip and get an fmu and call it a day. you will save time and it will work better than what you are trying to do.

[CM boyd]

oK, That is a pretty big agreement between everyone. Thanks. The car is an automatic,
and I have a high stall converter. I am using a
85mm MAF sensor with the electronics (ZZP Performance) I talked
to Full Throttle speed and they said the MAF Translator and the Jet chip are compatible. I talked to Jet Performance and they said to get an
FMU or use the Translator. The Jetchip comes off
today. I still feel the need to scale back the
timing just a bit for safety. I could use a scanner. I will try to use the Translator first and then the Vortech FMU together and then separately and see how it performs. My immediate
goal is only 6ps1, but I can feel the temptation
to go to 9.

[phoenix64]

Just a thought, if your not getting full boost in first you might be able to if you switched gears. Boost is all about load. I hit 8psi of boost at 1500RPM where normaly I'd get 4-5psi, but I was going up a hill in 4th, with 4 people, and a weekends worth of luggage in the trunk.

BTW Congrats on getting it finished.

[John_D.]

Congratulations on the install!
______________

To clear up a couple of earlier comments in this thread...

The maf output is frequency based, not voltage based.

The 28.8 ls1 injectors are rated at 4 bar, not 3 bar. They flow around 24 lbs/hr when they are rated the same as everyone else's injectors.

$60 is still a killer deal on them, I paid way more than that for Accel 24's when I was spraying and supercharging the v6. I also bought a set of the TSP ones (28.8 + rail) for my ls1 swap and they worked great. 28.8's (really 24's) with increased fuel pressure can take you a long way.
______________

Definitely scan it. You need to see if it's running lean, if the injectors are maxing out, and how much kr the pcm is commanding.

If you run a maft and an fmu, it will be very difficult to tune without a scanner.

A fuel pressure gauge would be a big plus also. Bigger injectors can overtax the fuel pump. Especially if you run an fmu to bump the fuel pressure. My stock v6 pump couldn't keep up once I added about 125 additional hp. The pressure would start dropping.

[RedFrk13]

Originally posted by Radcat:
Or just buy some used 36lb GTP injectors for around $50?

Got mine for 40 shipped. [img]smile.gif[/img]

The problem with the maf translator is it changes the frequency all the time. So it will help under boost but will run very rich at idle. ZZPs mini afc 2.0 can make changes at different times. The timing adjustment is very good if your getting knock though. Many L36s get knock on the stock tune without the turbo. I would invest in a tuner or fmu if I were you. I would lean toward the tuner so you can put in a maf table that matches your new maf.

Sounds like a cool project, keep up the good work. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[John_D.]

Originally posted by RedFrk13:

The problem with the maf translator is it changes the frequency all the time. So it will help under boost but will run very rich at idle.

The maft has 2 ranges. Base and WOT. Even so, it's still difficult to tune with a maft, because you can't really break out idle from part-throttle like you can with the mini-afc.

PCM tuning would be ideal.

[nocutt]

John D...I never mentioned the MAF was voltage based...we aren't fords ;) I meant the MAF uses 0-5V as inputs nothing before...nothing beyond. So scaling via interupting 'true MAF signals' can only get you within a said range which is based on size of MAF and size of injectors. If one misses the range then, the problems begin.
The way the MAFt will work is calculating what size MAF will correlate with injectors...and use the translator to skew the difference +/- and because the MAFt only has 2 settings, the factory PCM is used to correct for mid range. can work for modest boost...however I am not certain if there is also a possibility for the computer to "see" this thru its feedback, 02?!?! Once upon a time I used http://http://www.splitsec.com/products/arc2/arc2GM.htm was a headache due to continual changes i made while driving...hence I believed the PCM ultimately "learned" this out...remember it wouldn't matter when @ WOT...if you had bigger injectors...so I know, not guessing...I have tried them all ;)
The Mini AFC works onthe same principle...however it uses smaller increments for scaling...making the minAFC a better deal especially for mid range...

Anywayz...I vote with everyone else...money well spent will be using a reprog. computer...no point going black boxes in this time and age...lol!!

[CM boyd]

Yep, I hate to throw away another $300-$400 bucks to get the CPU reprogrammed. I hate to get rid of my chip, but my brother has a 98 Firebird that it might work on. The thing about the MAFT+ is
that it works only in WOT. Well, I am not gonna
see boost until my foot is at the floor with the
turbo. I think the MAFT+ activates around 3200rpm and full boost is around the same area.
I like the Mini AFC too but will try to work with
what I got now. Eventually after everything is
perfect I will purchase a professional tune. This
is still modest boost for me.