A thought about "turbo fever"

[Speed]

Here is the older specs I quoted the 750 number form...

1-21-04
"749rwhp/831rwtq"


Well, we may now be able to put a few theories to rest. Since so many of you want to see the Formula run with the stock engine, I decided to strap it down to the dyno tonight and go for broke.

This time however, I filled the tank with Turbo Blue 104 octane race gas. Kept the alcohol injection in place, and added a lb of boost (now set at 12.3lbs). After adding a bit of fuel to the programming as a precaution, we made the first pull through the full dynomax exhaust. I was stoked! It made 633rwhp/767rwtq! You can barely even hear the car running through this exhaust!!!
So next, we opened up the QTP electric cut-out. It then made 691rwhp/787rwtq with an AF maxing out at 12.5:1. (yes, lean but we had to start somewhere)
So we added more fuel to the tuning and a little more timing and reset the dyno: This time when it reached full boost, it spun the tires on the dyno and still made 713rwhp/831rwtq w/AF peaking at 12.1:1! Un-friggin-believeable! With a completely stock 124,000 mile engine! Through our standard, un-modified turbo kit!

I decided to give it one more go....this time with an extra lb of boost. So we moved the car back on the dyno a bit at DynoJet's suggestion to try and keep the tires planted (just plain BFG radials). Well, I was still getting used to calculating the electronic boost controller correctly, and apparently I was off. Boost went to 14.5lbs, it literally smoked the tires from 3800-5000, and put down 749rwhp!!!! If the tires had held, it would have made right at 800rwhp based on the missing area in the graph.
After a couple more failed attempts at getting the tires to stick, we gave up and called it a night. Next time, we'll have slicks on it.

I will post the dyno graphs this weekend. FWIW, this thing made peak HP at 4500rpm's and stayed nearly flat all the way to 6200 where it was STILL making 660rwhp! Talk about a HP curve! And at 6000, TQ was still at nearly 600 ft lbs of torque! It's literally INSANE on the street.

As a recap: Still the stock engine, stock fuel rails, stock fuel lines, single Racetronix in-tank pump, standard QMP Turbo kit with standard intercooler, standard log manifold, crossover, wastegate, un-ported factory '02 passenger side manifold, etc, etc. All we have done is upgraded to the T76 Q trim with .96 AR housing, and spent a lot of time tuning it (112 dyno pulls now to be exact).

[Timbo1969]

Originally posted by Wicked 3800 V6:
Nobody wants to apologize to me about shakedowns? :(

They should.....just get some dialed in runs and show them.... :D [img]graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

[imported_admin]

Originally posted by Speed:
An equally "simple" turbo kit bolt on has brough stock internals LS1s to 750hp. Our kit will give similar performance at a fraction of that price. What next?

Yes, I said BS that a simple turbo install will bring a stock-internal LS1 to 750-hp. I have seen that article, and that is not a stock bolt-on.

Just because an engine has the same block as it originally did does not mean that car is "stock". If that was the case, then my engine is "stock".

Stop comparing apples to oranges. One of the most heavily modified LS1's on the 'net is not a good comparison to a standard LS1 with nothing but a D1 Procharger install.

Originally posted by Speed:
If you notice the dyno Run number, it now says run #006. However, this particular dyno run was in fact run number 133! Apparently the DynoJet comes factory set to only allow 130 runs per File Name. This is the first car that we have ever made this many pulls on! Who woulda knew???
So we were forced to start a new file. By the end of the night, we had accumulated a total of 141 pulls since installing the turbo system back in November. Over 40 of those pulls were at 700+rwhp, with 20+ being at 750+rwhp! Not to mention all of the "street" runs.

[Speed]

Originally posted by Stefan:
Yes, I said BS that a simple turbo install will bring a stock-internal LS1 to 750-hp. I have seen that article, and that is not a stock bolt-on.

Just because an engine has the same block as it originally did does not mean that car is "stock". If that was the case, then my engine is "stock".

Stop comparing apples to oranges. One of the most heavily modified LS1's on the 'net is not a good comparison to a standard LS1 with nothing but a D1 Procharger install.

What part of "I know it seems crazy, but this is STILL the same factory stock engine!" do you not understand?

How about this part of the 749hp write up?

As a recap: Still the stock engine, stock fuel rails, stock fuel lines, single Racetronix in-tank pump, standard QMP Turbo kit with standard intercooler, standard log manifold, crossover, wastegate, un-ported factory '02 passenger side manifold, etc, etc. All we have done is upgraded to the T76 Q trim with .96 AR housing, and spent a lot of time tuning it (112 dyno pulls now to be exact).

Or perhaps this part of the article refering to the new engine..

We don't plan on installing the new engine until the factory one lets go.

They haven't installed the new engine yet because they haven't blown the old one up. It might be difficult for you to swallow but you are wrong.

[Speed]

BTW, that little tidbit you quoted was only saying they had made so many pulls under their current file, they had to start a new file. I guess you don't have much experience with dynos but rest assured, I do. I tune on them. Every run is associated with a car in the winpep software. That dynojet software only allows you to store a certain number of pulls under a given car.

[Drone51]

speed like you said a while ago

I can't vouch for those who have copied the kit and you can't use those to compare either.

that kit dosnt even compair to yours, its alot better then yours will ever be, the best you could do is copy that kit


you say you build turbo kits why not bring YOUR KITS up and not someone elses, wait thats right you dont have ANY KITS BE IT A LS1 OR A V6 to run a decent number. can you not do any better


Just think its stupid when people try to talk **** about other peoples stuff when they cant even back it up with their own stuff. If YOU had a kit that made that kinda horsepower I would give you props. All I see from FFF is all talk and no results. Period end of story. Tiago has had his kit on his car for a couple years now and still hasnt run better then a 13.5 he maybe busy, we all are but hes trying to sell a product that hasnt even been proven to run in the 13's yes physics say it should but doing it is something else.


STOP BENCH RACING AND RUN A NUMBER.

[imported_admin]

My point is that article is bench racing ricer magazine BS. That car does NOT represent the average run-of-the-mill turbo install. Don't go quoting the world's fastest car saying "look, this car has a product similar to mine".

The reason I mentioned the dyno pulls is because average cars do NOT run 130+ pulls on a dyno.

Besides, ATI has cars that pull 700+ hp on stock internals, too. That does not mean every supercharged car will put out that much power.

[Speed]

Originally posted by Drone51:
speed like you said a while ago

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I can't vouch for those who have copied the kit and you can't use those to compare either.

</font>[/QUOTE]We currently haven't started development of the kit. The point in bringing the QMP kit up was address another issue.

Originally posted by Drone51:
that kit dosnt even compair to yours, its alot better then yours will ever be, the best you could do is copy that kit

That's an aweful jackass thing to say to me considering my quality meets or exceeds these kits. That's a groundless flame if you ask me. We have no intention of copying the QMP kit, we are going to implement our own design with a number of features that will benefit the kit.

Originally posted by Drone51:
you say you build turbo kits why not bring YOUR KITS up and not someone elses, wait thats right you dont have ANY KIT BE IT A LS1 OR A V6 to run a decent number. can you not do any better

I don't have an LS1 kit yet; we just bought the prototype car last week. I've been bringing up my kits through out this thread. How about 554/578 on an lt1 untuned and stock internals. That's my kit. Go flame someone else because you have no foundation to flame me.

[Drone51]

ohh and speed, said supercharger kit has run a better time then Tiagos car(FFF fastest car at a blistering 13.5)


YALL ARE ALL TALK, NO RESULTS


MONEY WALKS BULL**** TALKS

[Speed]

Originally posted by Stefan:
My point is that article is bench racing ricer magazine BS. That car does NOT represent the average run-of-the-mill turbo install.

But wait.. Isn't that exactly what you are doing to me? Seems you initiated this even after I took the time to compliment your car. tsk tsk

[Drone51]

tiago has had a LS1 for atleast 6 months now and his sig has said the whole time turbo in the works.


this isnt a LT1 board I dont care what your LT1 ran. Im talking v6's, your the one that brought up a turbo ls1 into the convo so i asked why you were talking crap when you yourself hasnt even made one and done better.

[Speed]

Originally posted by Drone51:
ohh and speed, said supercharger kit has run a better time then Tiagos car(FFF fastest car at a blistering 13.5)


YALL ARE ALL TALK, NO RESULTS


MONEY WALKS BULL**** TALKS

Well Tiago has his own company and what he does with his car is up to him. You fail to mention his horsepower numbers vs current mods.

My money is walking and the only bullsht I see talking is you...

[Speed]

Originally posted by Drone51:
tiago has had a LS1 for atleast 6 months now and his sig has said the whole time turbo in the works.


this isnt a LT1 board I dont care what your LT1 ran. Im talking v6's, your the one that brought up a turbo ls1 into the convo so i asked why you were talking crap when you yourself hasnt even made one and done better.

No Stefan brought up the LS1s.

You want to change everything when you are loosing an arguement; which I'm not sure what your point is. But if you want to talk V6s, sure. Our 3.8 kit works quite well and is an excellent value. What else do you want to talk about?

[Arctc Wolf]

I have also seen that car, and read all the write-up's on their site for it. The turbo isn't the stock on that comes w/ the kit, it is an upgraded turbo. They swapped on a LS6 intake, which flows a bit better than a normal LS1, but supposedly comes on all 2000+ f-bodies from the factory, can still be considered somewhat stock. Initially, w/o tuning, the upgraded kit made 506 rwhp and 585 rwtq. after tuning, they made 570 rwhp and 665 rwtq w/ 93 and 105 octane mixed 50/50. I'd have wanted 2 see what power gains could be had on just 93 octane fuel, which is what everyday drivers use. after those runs, they swapped in a new set of comp 918 valvesprings and gained a bunch more power.

I understand where ur coming from stefan, but I'm sure that if they just threw on the stock turbo kit on a low mileage motor, the power levels would be close to if not above the procharger and vortec sc kits.

[Drone51]

what am i saying that is bull****


I know tiagos mods


when he dynoed I was there,

he was runing race gas,
14-16psi,
open down pipe,
spraying n2o on the intercooler'

just about everything that could be done to get as high a hp number as possible and he only pulled off 340rwhp


and if your money is the one walking then build a 750+hp ls1 stock motor except for valve springs, you seem to think its easy, ohh and if you could pull that off then you would sell a crap load of kits so dont even say its not worth it blah blah


numbers sell kits (atleast to people that know anything about cars), not bench racing