A thought about "turbo fever"

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

your cazy 12second cary but funny [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

[hou-tex-six]

Well call it a fever if you wish, but the fact of the matter is that the "fever" has really brought a lot to this forum and woken up a lot of people to the potential they might have in the 6 instead of the LS1 swap "fever". You, and others, have been working on the supercharger "kit" for YEARS and still have minimal results to show. If this is your R+D time then fine, keep on refining and keep it mute to the rest of the people. See how enthused they will be about it, but i dont see the point in calling out the turbo enthusiasts as BS just because they wish to share whats going on.

I dunno why all of this becomes negative when it should in fact be positive. I dont think anyone is BS'ing about their numbers nor trying to deceive people about buying a turbo kit and running a 3.

People do get excited when they see dyno numbers and a few good track times and as I see it it just fuels them to want to actually get out there and mod their cars. Whats wrong with that?

If your dumb enough to think that if you get a turbo kit you will rip everyone on the street and strip that you come across then maybe you should just go out and buy a Tornado air and call it a day.

Cp

[TurboProject]

The thing that most attractied me to turbos was the cost. Even just a supercharger and a turbocharger by themselves, you can easilly get a turbo for much less than a supercharger. Also, there seems to be a lot more variety with turbos and you can change just a few components of a current turbo to meet a new set of demands, something I'm unsure of that you can do with a supercharger. Also, if you can cut and weld your own pipes you greatly reduce the cost of a setup by a huge amount. And frankly, on a street car I don't think you need to take every possible length at making the pipes perfect from a thermodynamic and fluid mechanic standpoint to get good results. So even someone without tons of experince can follow a few basic concepts and come out with a more than street sufficient setup by themselves.

Also, being an engineer(student anyway) I think it's "neat" or "cool" that a turbo makes use of all that high energy exhaust that would normally just be dumped outside.

As far as posting times, I think it's helpful. Seeing someone with a simular setup and seeing what their times are might give you an idea as to what you're doing wrong or what they're doing wrong on a particular setup. It's a way of evaluation and tuning in my opinion. As far as me I'm about the slowest in progress of my setup. I first put the turbo on in march of 2002 and currently have the slowest power adder 3.4 timeslip. One main reason is I've only been to the track twice with the total time I've had my car. Once soon after I got it and it was pretty much stock and once after the turbo(I just don't see it as a priority). Another reason is I'm not rich and I got married, both things that'll slow you down pretty good in working on cars...
I still see posting times as a helpful thing. And who cares if someone with a slow time boasts about it; it's still a slow time and people can make fun of them if they want...

[Shane]

I dont see any Supercharged V6's in 12's on 7psi with a bone stock motor

[Arctc Wolf]

we can all argue our points of view till we're blue in the face. Each setup has it's strengths and weaknesses. turbo's have lag, sc's have parasitic loss, ect.

Speed, MattsV6, Tiago, Stefan, Shirl, and 12sec, u all try to be experts in your areas of ur car building. I think the problem is that ur all seeing things from a 1 sided view. because some immature ppl started flame wars back and forth between sc's and turbo's, u all ended u being dragged into it some way or another and ended up having to defend urselves against many members on the other side of the fence. u all became so engrossed in ur own projects that ur unable to see the positives of the other kits. Nitrous is great cuz it's a more cost effective way to go faster, plus it's only there when u wanna push the button. Turbo's can be the most efficient power adders out there is designed properly. superchargers always give you extra power on tap at any moment, boost will happen whther ur at part throttle, or full throttle.

Each person has their own thing that they do, which should be cool. The only way to see if ur car "OWNZ" is if u all run each other. otherwise, I can't see this ever ending. If I had 2 sit here and bench-race all ur cars, and assume that u all are geniuses about how engines work with ur different setups, I'd have to say that the turbo's win almost every time. Real world, u all know u could miss a shift, destroy a clutch, lose control, blow a tire, ect. and u'd lose the race.

and now, I'm gonna go back in my hole and finish up my Cam Info. Section.....

[Wicked 3800 V6]

Let me tell you about shakedown. I finished the car (finished as in no intercooler, unverified FMU, uninstalled FPG sender, bad oil smoke out the back) the morning (went to bed at 1, up at 6, finished by 7) of the EFA Fall Drag Day. Got down eventually to MIR a little after the gates opened. Pulled everything out (seat, swaybar unhook, HALs to 1, etc.) and sent her down the track. 3 passes at 7 psi, seemed to go OK. Twisted the adjuster screw to get 10+ psi, started blowing off the pressure-side intake fittings, and at the top end, i.e. 5500rpm in 3rd gear, the stock clutch was slipping. On my sixth and final run for the day, I threw the goddamn serpentine belt when I let off the gas at the top end of the track, and all but overheated the car on the way back to my pit area.

That is what I define to be a "shakedown run". Absolutely everything untested. Unknown, undecided, unsure. And I'm a full time (18 credits that semester) junior / senior year college student, working 20 hrs a week as an RA, so I don't have time to work on the car every night, nor every weekend.

So please, I know you weren't trying to start a flame war, but don't give me **** about "shakedown runs". I did the best I damn could, and pulled a 14.3 at 98 on a 2.3 60'. Call it ****ty, call it great, but to me it was a shakedown run, because I didn't know what to expect, and I think that I can do better. I believe that it becomes *not* a shakedown run when I'm back, ready, logging everything, and am not out on fresh parts. Consequentially, I anticipate the April 3rd Drag Day at MIR to be, you guessed it, a shakedown run. I'll be on, since the October run, BFG drag radials, a tubular K member, a SPEC 3 (III) clutch, a rebuilt turbo, and a MAC TA / DSL.

Again, please cut the "shakedown" people a break.

[DARK SDE '02]

I think this whole topic should be closed because it's trolling plain and simple! Don't get all jealous because someone else with a setup different than yours is getting all the attention! And to ask people to stop posting results kinda makes this message board POINTLESS. People that update us on the progress of their builds gives us guys who are aspiring heavy modders a lot of hope and something to look forward to once we round up more cash ;)

So stop bickering and go work on your car! And when you do something YOU think is worth posting on this board DO IT. I can't believe something like this has even gone on this long. Grow up guys.

[firebird1]

yeah, someone lock stefans post.. thats real smart [img]graemlins/slap.gif[/img]
i could get into this arguement, but im choosing to wait....
AIS will bring bragging rights.

[Tyler]

Hey. my girlfriend is hotter than all of yours!

psh

im sticking with n/a.

or i might join up with james and go nitrous

[Teufel Hunden]

Turbo > Supercharger.

That is all...

[ February 23, 2004, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: Teufel Hunden ]

[Justin Kirkham]

Stefan, you skipped my post... What gives? [img]graemlins/stickpoke.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

-Justin

[Tiago]

Originally posted by Shane:
I dont see any Supercharged V6's in 12's on 7psi with a bone stock motor

[img]graemlins/banana.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rock.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/popcorn.gif[/img]

[Speed]

Originally posted by Arctc Wolf:
Speed, MattsV6, Tiago, Stefan, Shirl, and 12sec, u all try to be experts in your areas of ur car building. I think the problem is that ur all seeing things from a 1 sided view.

I think you are right to some extent but I've ran superchargers, nitrous, and turbos on a number of different platforms. I'm turbo centric because I have and seen others make more power and better track times with the turbo. Turbos do have lag but you can drive through lag. On the drag strip a two step on a manual car will spool that thing up to a large degree. Once you have boost, building boost grows expotentially. From a roll, you have brake boost. My kits aren't Supra kits where these guys put excessively large turbos on their car and it has to respool between shifts. You shift and your boost is back, boom! This is highly effective on a road course.

For the auto guys, just stall it up and you build some boost. The larger the converter, the more you can build boost before launch. When I took the 6 speed out of the LT1 car for a while and installed a TH400 and a TCI street fighter converter, believe me it was SICK. Driving down the highway on some 275/50/50 nittos at 60-70mph, I could nail it and downshift and it would OBLITERATE the tires with the boost coming on instantly! For the V6 guys, I think a converter in an auto would just be wrong on the street and I look forward to seeing some of our kits used in this setup.

But back to the original point, I've run all three in the years I've been involved in racing. I now own my 5th f-body. I've had two 2nd Gens (78 and a 79) and three 4th gens (two LS1s and an LT1). I've run cars with the traditional roots and roots derived blowers. I've run cars with CSCs on them. I've run nitrous, bottle after bottle. In all those experiences, I can tell you with out a doubt, I am winning more races, making more power, and keeping parts longer with turbochargers. Am I sucked into these to defend my camp? Well perhaps but in these interactions, if people can read through the flames and baseless posts, there is some good information to be obtained. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to dig through the dirt to get the diamond.

[Timbo1969]

1 fact remains Turbo's have dominated everywhere in racing they have been allowed. Are they not outlawed in NHRA top fuel drag racing? Yes they are and why? Due to the ease of adjusting the boost levels between races to beat supercharged cars, being deemed unfair.

Stefan is right in one aspect, at this point it's still all apples and oranges, no one has completely dialed in their kits as of yet, so lets wait for everyone to get times they don't whine about. Before passing judgement on the current kits. Shane's seems to be in the lead as far as a time's go, but it's still to early to tell.

[ February 23, 2004, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Timbo1969 ]

[12secondv6]

Originally posted by Tyler:
Hey. my girlfriend is hotter than all of yours!

psh

im sticking with n/a.

or i might join up with james and go nitrous

Lucky man, I don't have a g/f.

G/F mod wins over ALL nitrous, turbo, and blower!

I'm just messing with everyone when I say nitrous OWNZZZ all.

I don't think any method is better, it is just done different.


But, I do wanna run everyone from the site :D