Yet another Timing Question

[Turbo Kyle]

Im not sure if any of you guys have watched the timing map on a Stock ECU while running boost.
Im trying to get a feel of what kind of timing the ECU does when running boost. Can any one answer my question? 2500 RPM - 6000 RPM
Thanks guys,
Kyle~

[black34v6]

Get HP tuners and see it. Or someone with HP tuners post the stock table....

[nocutt]

Originally posted by Turbo Kyle:
Im not sure if any of you guys have watched the timing map on a Stock ECU while running boost.
Im trying to get a feel of what kind of timing the ECU does when running boost. Can any one answer my question? 2500 RPM - 6000 RPM

What are you really trying to figure...the turbo or rather boost has no bearing on what timing is doing, so in other words timing will be commanded just like a stock ECU...however dependent on your thermal efficiency/ how much you are compressing Knock can rare its ugly head....in which case the PCM pull advance...which indirectly means a chunk of HP is lost...some get away without touching timing on 10psi, while some cannot get even 5...ultimately what you/is programmed is what is commanded...of course dependent on the factors listed?

[Turbo Kyle]

I need a Stock timing table at WOT

[HAZ-Matt]

Which one. There are two timing tables, high octane and low octane. Depending on the knock sensor readings, the computer uses a value that it interpolates between the tables. Zero knock over a long period of time weights the high octane table more heavily, whereas each knock count skews the calculation towards values in the low octane table.

[Linxs]

Sounds like all you need is a pic of HP tuners with high/low octane spark tables. I can do this for you after i get home latter today. The WOT will be denoted by % of throttle position.. I'll try to rem. and post one for you tonight.

[Turbo Kyle]

Ok so thier are 2 Tables in the Stock ECU.
High octane> Gives more timing because the car is reading no KR

Low octane> ECU is seeing some KR so it pulls timing and runs the "Low octane timing table"

I need a map of both...any one know some peak numbers the have seen on the Low octane and High octane tables?

Thanks again fellas,
Kyle~

[arthansen]

Stock High Octane Table from 2001 V6 M5 F-Body.

http://home.cfl.rr.com/akaeh/HighOct.JPG

Stock Low Octane Table

http://home.cfl.rr.com/akaeh/LowOct.JPG

[Turbo Kyle]

Originally posted by arthansen:
Stock High Octane Table from 2001 V6 M5 F-Body.

http://home.cfl.rr.com/akaeh/HighOct.JPG

Stock Low Octane Table

http://home.cfl.rr.com/akaeh/LowOct.JPG

You ROCK!!! Witch side of the table is WOT? What is the .092 Stand for at the right side of the table?

[arthansen]

The numbers accross the top are the airflow as meassured by the MAF. I believe is is g/sec but I am not sure.

Stock, WOT would be in the .56 and .68 coluums from 3000 rpms to 6000 rpms.

[Turbo Kyle]

Originally posted by arthansen:
The numbers accross the top are the airflow as meassured by the MAF. I believe is is g/sec but I am not sure.

Stock, WOT would be in the .56 and .68 coluums from 3000 rpms to 6000 rpms.

So if you blow through the MAF with a Turbo, you would be more to the right like .80-.92 , correct?

[arthansen]

Yes, and quite possibly off the chart (if you are maxing the MAF). However, being a little off the chart high is not that big of a deal. It just uses the .92 number so you have to put a more conservitive number in that coluum just in case.

[Turbo Kyle]

Originally posted by arthansen:
Yes, and quite possibly off the chart (if you are maxing the MAF). However, being a little off the chart high is not that big of a deal. It just uses the .92 number so you have to put a more conservitive number in that coluum just in case.

Sweet to the MAF maxes at .92. Now when the MAF maxes whar other things happen? Injectors do anything weird?

[arthansen]

Without a FMU or a 2 bar MAP sensor (our cars only have a 1 bar MAP), the injectors will cause problems. Once they max out on the MAP table, they will not know what to do. Simply put, they will no longer change so you will start to go lean the faster you go. 2 options here. Spend lots of money on HP Tuners and the 2 bar upgrade, get a 2 bar MAP, and tune the car for boost. Or, use a FMU. The FMU monitors boost and increases fuel pressure to add more fuel. It fools the car because the PCM does not monitor fuel pressure. The increased fuel pressure adds more fuel even though the PCM thinks it is only adding the normal amount.

Hope that makes sense.

Everything else fuel wise takes care of it self. The only other thing (and its a big one) is knock. You will need some methode of pulling spark.

[Turbo Kyle]

Originally posted by arthansen:
Without a FMU or a 2 bar MAP sensor (our cars only have a 1 bar MAP), the injectors will cause problems. Once they max out on the MAP table, they will not know what to do. Simply put, they will no longer change so you will start to go lean the faster you go. 2 options here. Spend lots of money on HP Tuners and the 2 bar upgrade, get a 2 bar MAP, and tune the car for boost. Or, use a FMU. The FMU monitors boost and increases fuel pressure to add more fuel. It fools the car because the PCM does not monitor fuel pressure. The increased fuel pressure adds more fuel even though the PCM thinks it is only adding the normal amount.

Hope that makes sense.

Everything else fuel wise takes care of it self. The only other thing (and its a big one) is knock. You will need some methode of pulling spark.

Yea,
I know the FMU game. I got the Cartech FMU. I was just wondering if the ECU will flip out. As far as timing goes...I plan on a big shot of Alky, Im going to try and get away with out pulling and Timing on 10psi. Here is their website www.alkycontrol.com