Liquid Nitrogen Intercooler

[Darknight]

Has anyone ever thought of this, or built one? It would work very cheaply and efficiently. Just have a bottle of liquid nitrogen, activated by solenoids like N2O, then the nitrogen would pass through the intercooler as a liquid, absorbing tons of heat from the intake air. You could use this on either a N/A or forced induction engine. On a N/A engine, it could reduce the intake temp by around 100 degrees. On a forced induction engine, it would reduce the temp by much more than that. You would only have to either fill up the nitrogen tank every so often (which is pretty cheap) or run a pressurized refrigeration unit to keep it liquified. I would recommend the latter only if someone isn't running a supercharger. Look at it this way - if you can increase the density of the intake air by 50%, that's just as good or better than forcing 50% more air into the engine, with far less risk of detonation.

DK

[PewterBird]

Well I failed high school chem, but I know there is a formula to find out how cold one colder element will change the temp of another warmer element in a set time. I would first figure out the chemistry and numbers, then make a design and build it. If you have the time and money, and know how, it might just be the next new power adder.

[Dominic]

It would likely cause condensation which is unwanted. The idea is not to supercool the mixture, but to make it ambient or slightly cooler than ambient.

[Oryan02]

Putting liquid nitrogen into the intake stream would not be a great idea. You could do what NX did with their system and use CO2 instead of N2O.http://www.nitrousexpress.com/welcome.htm

[strobhen]

you could inject it onto an intercooler (like CO2), but I would never inject liquid nitrogen or co2 into the engine directly.

your taking up valuable space that oxygen could be occupying in the cyl.

course if you inject something that cold onto even an aluminum intercooler, you run a very high risk of cracking it.

[ February 20, 2003: Message edited by: strobhen ]</p>

[Darknight]

I wasn't advocating injecting nitrogen into the airstream itself, but only using it as a medium in the intercooler, to enhance its efficiency several times over. I would never go for injecting it into a cylinder, unless it was either as a form of detonation control, or perhaps if you were using it in a concept hybrid engine, under enough pressure that the nitrogen itself would help push the piston. Liquid nitrogen wouldn't cause condensation if say, the intake charge were 300 degrees fahrenheit, and the intercooler lowered it to 100 degrees. The actual air density is increased by 36% though. Now, for a N/A engine, if you can lower the intake charge temperature from say, 100 to 50, then you gain 6% intake air density. The temperature changes that I mentioned are very feasible, if not quite conservative. I can't give you solid figures without actually building one though, but I know this: my '88 Olds 3800 Series I can run almost a full second better 0-60 on a 30 degree day than it can on an 80 degree day because it's very receptive to increased air mass intake.

There's another way you could do this, using alcohol in the intercooler. Alcohol works better than water to absorb heat through evaporation. Just run an intercooler system designed for alcohol, with a condensor, and it would be much more efficient than a standard intercooler.

[Oryan02]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> 2001 75th Anniversary V6 Pewter Firebird w/ Chrome Wheels, T-Tops, & Y87
Mods: Free Ram Air, !Silencer, Full 3" Hooker Catback, 3" Cat, Maft+
Best time: 15.095 at 90.00 MPH with a 2.127 60' (Had Jet Chip Stage II at the time) <hr></blockquote>
strobhen, I think you need to update your sig. Especially the part about being a 75th anniversary. :D

[Oryan02]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> I wasn't advocating injecting nitrogen into the airstream itself, but only using it as a medium in the intercooler, to enhance its efficiency several times over. <hr></blockquote>

I think this is where you are confusing others or maybe even yourself. You wouldn't want to use Liquid nitrogen or Carbon Dioxide inside the intercooler. That would allow a more dense air charge but it would allow for less fuel(you would have more nitrogen than oxygen). Alcohol would help.

[Dominic]

Many people use simple H20 Evap cooling by spritzing water on the air/air intercooler, it works very well.

[Mighty Thor]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dominic:
It would likely cause condensation which is unwanted. The idea is not to supercool the mixture, but to make it ambient or slightly cooler than ambient.<hr></blockquote>

This pretty much sums it up why we can't do that.

[Darknight]

I'm not really confused at all, because at no point would the nitrogen be injected into the intake air. It would simply pass through the heat exchanger, and absorb heat from the intake air, and carry it off to be released. I wasn't supporting the idea of supercooling the air (although with good engineering, you could take care of the condensation problem), I was just saying that there are more effective mediums than water or air for an intercooler. It would take some experimentation for sure to get it just right, but I think it's worth considering.

DK

[speedy-v6-camaro]

As a chemical engineer, this could work with the right setup. The flow would have to be controlled via a temperature sensor servo controller. In other words you would have to set a temperature (20C would be good) and the controller would allow more LN2 in when the temperature rose from that. Unfortunately with the temperature rising quickly from the turbo or supercharger it might take to long for the servo to react. It would take a lot of time and a lot of money to get it working, but technically it could be engineered.

[Oryan02]

Like I said. NX has done something about this already. Check it out on their web site. Why reinvent the wheel?

[12secondv6]

Resident post whore was already on top of something similar:
http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c&f=6&t=011289


The CryO²™ Air Intake consists of an aerodynamically design bulb with a cryogenic chamber which is mounted in a 4" segment of air tube. As the air passes over the bulb heat is removed from the air charge resulting in a colder, denser more powerful charge. Dyno testing showed a reduction in intake air temperature of more than 35%. The CryO²™ Air Intake can be used on tubocharged, supercharged or naturally aspirated applications. Multiple units can be used for colder results. Installs in minutes and comes with silicone connection sleeve, hose clamps and connection/vent hose.

Basically, CO2 and/ or Nitrogen are NOT injected into the path of air which enters the engine for combustion.
The CO2 or nitrogen just passes through a 'chamber' in the path of the incoming air and it superchills the incoming air

Interesting stuff.
Dunno if I'd do it for an n/a application, but it would work.
If I had a blower/ turbo w/ an inter/ after cooler then the set up would be more benificial.

[ February 21, 2003: Message edited by: 12secondv6 ]</p>

[Darknight]

Well, I'll be darned to heck! Somebody done did it. Wonders never cease. I'm sorry, Oryan02, but you didn't specify, so I didn't know what you were talking about. Of course, this isn't nitrogen, but it looks interesting. I still think nitrogen would be better for lasting longer.

DK