Supercharger

[98GREENGLOW]

I really need some more help from others who know anything about supercharger. I have a 1998 V6 Camaro and someone is selling me a powerdyne supercharger for a 1995-1997 Camaro. I was told that it would be possible to make it work, but I still need to know what it will take and how much work that I need to do to make it work. I also need to know if its going to cost alot of money to make the change to make the supercharger work in my 1998 v6 Camaro. I would really apprecaite all the help that anyone would give me. Thanks.....

[Ironman24]

Everything will fit except for the pipe to the blower itself. (see other post) So it should cost you an extra 30 bucks in some heavy duty tubing from Powerdyne. Don't try to use any cheap stuff like dryer hose.

[Mighty Thor]

Your car is a 98 so your TB should be angled. It should fit with no problem. Do what Ironman and I did and put a whisper lid with ram air kit instead of FIPK. It is way better.

[Dewey]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mighty Thor:
Your car is a 98 so your TB should be angled. It should fit with no problem. Do what Ironman and I did and put a whisper lid with ram air kit instead of FIPK. It is way better.<hr></blockquote>

I'm glad you brought this up. I was just thinking on my way home (I try not to I swear), and came upon this conclusion. With the amount of air now coming into the engine (that is what's happening, right?), wouldn't you need a sizable exhaust to keep up? I would think that since N/A cars perform noticably better with better intake/exhaust setups, and the powerdyne is essentially just an intake mod (on steroids), the exhaust would have to be equally as beefy. I may be way off on this one, and if I am, by all means correct me.

[StockV6Cam]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dewey:


I'm glad you brought this up. I was just thinking on my way home (I try not to I swear), and came upon this conclusion. With the amount of air now coming into the engine (that is what's happening, right?), wouldn't you need a sizable exhaust to keep up? I would think that since N/A cars perform noticably better with better intake/exhaust setups, and the powerdyne is essentially just an intake mod (on steroids), the exhaust would have to be equally as beefy. I may be way off on this one, and if I am, by all means correct me.<hr></blockquote>

Hehe not to nitpick, but his comment about an intake is the complete opposite of your post [img]tongue.gif[/img] Anyways yes, when you have a blower you should have a nice big exhaust to get the air out of the engine.

[Darknight]

Bigger exhaust will help forced induction, but not as dramatically as N/A. The reason is that it is much more important in a NA to have the cylinder empty of exhaust before the intake stroke begins. N/A engines have a much smaller pressure differential for pumping air through the engine, so every little bit of pressure difference that it can get is crucial. Forced induction engines can do two things that N/A can't. One, they can pack more air/fuel into the same space, so even if some exhaust is left in the cylinder, it won't hurt it as much as N/A, because it can pile more fuel mixture in on top. Two, during times of cam lobe overlap, which is more noticeable on bigger cams, both valves are open at the same time. That allows some of the intake pressure to drive out the remaining exhaust from the cylinder. Basically, what I am saying is that good exhaust helps both N/A and forced induction engines, but it is more crucial to the N/A engine, which needs every help it can get.

DK

[StockV6Cam]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Darknight:
Bigger exhaust will help forced induction, but not as dramatically as N/A.<hr></blockquote>

WRONG! If you ever look at HP gains of N/A engines vs. forced induction engines when just an exhaust is added you'll know how wrong you are.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>The reason is that it is much more important in a NA to have the cylinder empty of exhaust before the intake stroke begins. N/A engines have a much smaller pressure differential for pumping air through the engine, so every little bit of pressure difference that it can get is crucial.<hr></blockquote>

Did this actually make sense in your head? Cause it sure as hell didn't when read. I can see what you're trying to say here, but again, it's wrong.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Forced induction engines can do two things that N/A can't. One, they can pack more air/fuel into the same space, so even if some exhaust is left in the cylinder, it won't hurt it as much as N/A, because it can pile more fuel mixture in on top.<hr></blockquote>

You sure about that?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Two, during times of cam lobe overlap, which is more noticeable on bigger cams, both valves are open at the same time. That allows some of the intake pressure to drive out the remaining exhaust from the cylinder.<hr></blockquote>

Well, you did better in this part. Even though you are still kind of wrong. During the overlap a vacuum is created out of the exhaust. This is where people say "don't get too big of an exhaust otherwise you won't have enough back pressure" Back pressure actually helps suck air out of the engine believe it or not. The "size" of the cam really doesn't have anything to do with overlap. You could get a high lift cam w/ 0 overlap. Most forced induction cams have 0 overlap because they don't need to have a vacuum created in order to clear the exhaust gases. That's also why on a FI car you WANT no back pressure.

[Mighty Thor]

I don't want to take away the whole exhaust thing for that's another topic there. The answer is yes. Though I've seen James at Vector Perf. install the blower and then tells us that changing the exhaust is not necessary. We all disagree with him.

It does help tremendously. Unfortunately for me I need a header. Since pacesetter came out with one I am going for that. But definately get a header if you are going to SC.

[Darknight]

"WRONG! If you ever look at HP gains of N/A engines vs. forced induction engines when just an exhaust is added you'll know how wrong you are."

I knew some of you would disagree with me, because you misunderstand exactly what it is that I am saying. I'm not saying that a bigger exhaust won't actually create a bigger increase in a forced induction, because it will. What I am saying is that a good exhaust is more critical and more crucial to a N/A engine in order for it to perform well. Put it this way: a supercharger on a stock exhaust can still put out impressive numbers. You're not going to get much of anything impressive out of a stock exhaust N/A engine. I'm sorry you misunderstood me, I guess I wasn't clear enough.

"Most forced induction cams have 0 overlap because they don't need to have a vacuum created in order to clear the exhaust gases."

Thank you for proving my point that a forced induction engine can rid exhaust gases better than N/A. That's what my whole argument is based upon. My condition 2 operated on the assumption that a particular cam DID have overlap. For those cams that don't, it wouldn't apply, now would it. When i said "bigger" in reference to a cam, I was trying to use a generic word, which I realize can cause trouble, but oh well. I was referring to the fact that a lot of the more aggressive aftermarket cams do have overlap, and there is a time for these when both valves are open for a short bit.

Basically, you can look at the big picture like this. A N/A engine is like a small air pump, while the supercharged engine is like a larger air pump. While they both benefit from having larger diameter piping, the larger pump will be able to pump more air through the same size pipe, thus making the need for a larger pipe in the smaller engine more crucial. It is not an overly complicated matter, so please don't make it one.

"Did this actually make sense in your head? Cause it sure as hell didn't when read. I can see what you're trying to say here, but again, it's wrong."

Lastly, I ask that you refrain from rudeness, for your own sake, as well as the board's. It doesn't help your case, and it doesn't help the board atmosphere. If you don't really understand something, don't just react and call it wrong.

Darknight

[ February 27, 2003: Message edited by: Darknight ]</p>

[malloynx#2]

http://v6camaro.homestead.com/shirl.html

read this article Darknight, then pull your head out of your butt

[Darknight]

First off, don't come here with that kind of know-it-all attitude citing some very poorly written puny little article that doesn't even really disagree with what I'm saying, and then tell me to pull my head out of my butt. I think if anyone needs to do that, it is you. I'm not the guy you wanna mess around with. I can be real nice, or I can be not so nice; it's your choice. I've done nothing to you so far, so your approach was entirely unnecessary.

Having said that, I'll get on to business. The article doesn't provide any real information about the setup of the car, outside the exhaust, so we don't know how this thing was put together. Besides that, I said that a forced induction engine would get the greater overall benefit from an exhaust, but that a N/A engine can get a more crucial help from the exhaust. At the timeslip page, I see lots of N/A engines in the 14s, which I can assume have an aftermarket exhaust. How much are you willing to bet that they would've made it there without a custom exhaust?

So what does this all mean? We see a supercharged car get the biggest overall gain from an exhaust, and a N/A get the more necessary change, so that it can get way down in the 14s.

Now you might say,"but the supercharged car only ran a 15 on a stock system, and it ran a 13.9 on aftermarket." Well, again, I said that it would get the biggest overall gain, but there's one thing you have to ask. What do you define as stock? If my Olds has its catalytic convertor punched out, and a performance muffler, is that stock or aftermarket? I still consider that basically stock, because it isn't a complete exhaust upgrade. More than likely, Shirlene could've gotten very similar numbers with just such a setup. When we're at a board such as this one, the conventional meaning of a word like "stock" changes somewhat. I bet 90 percent of the members here have at least a partial upgrade in their exhaust systems, so what you call "stock" becomes relative. I would never think of supercharging a vehicle without at least fixing the catalytic convertor, and adding a performance muffler. I don't think anyone with half a wit would do that. By using "stock" as I did, I was giving a mechanic/driver the benefit of the doubt for having some common sense. I guess I didn't state it clearly enough.

Darknight

[Arctc Wolf]

yes, you make sense now, but u didn't before. explain urself more clearly next time please. as far as exhaust goes, there's too many variables to say that an NA car will need it most and a forced induction car will see more power out of it. both cars need it just as much to run faster. yes, the forced induction car will usually make mroe power out of an exhaust than an NA car will, but there are exceptions.

[98GREENGLOW]

Thanks guys I appreciate the help and if it dosent fit then I will just order the heavy duty hose from powerdyne. The deal has already been made. It has 6000 miles on it and was for a 1997. I paid 2200 $$$ wich includes shipping and NKG plugs that are brand new.I am very happy and can not wait to be in supercharger heaven.