how much boost??

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by Tiago:
:eek:

i know im drop dead fine but you don't have drool over me Tiago.....
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[img]tongue.gif[/img]

[davjos81]

Ok, this is what I'm trying to build:
-motor that can handle 15-18 psi, all the time
-run on pump gas (93 octane)
-run 10s or 11s
-but still be my daily driver!

Daily driving I'd probably run only 15, but I want to have dual stage setup where i can crank it up to 18 or 20 psi to race!

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by viper04af:
jsut so you know what your getting into, i have about 10-15k in the motor alone, and 21,500 in the hole car, you auto will take a crap,(25,000 or more whe its all siad and done.

OILPAN: the 3.8 DOES NOT HAVE AL heads they are cast IRON
8:1 will be fine that's what intense drag car runs.

you will want to order tiagos kit and upgrade to the t-66 or t-72. that the mistak i made and only time will tell if the turbo will push my 7100 RPM limiter

it's obvious you really have no idea what you're getting into, and your knowledge of the 3.8 motor is very limited. I can tell from your parts list that you went to 3800 performance or whatever and simply bought the most expensive parts you could. half the ignition parts you bought you wont need with the tuning software first off. You really need to do some research on the fast GN guys, because let's face it, they're the only ones with fast 3800 cars. Talk to them, you'll find out that none of them are dumb enough to try to push a 3800 as high as 7000 rpm.. these motors simply dont make the power up there, they dont like to be run that high.... the faster GN guys do not push their motors like that. higher rpms do not equal more power, which you seem to believe. your heads wont support it, your cam probably wont work at those rpms either. My guess is once you get the car somewhat tuned (not by yourself, by a professional), you'll find that your power peaks long before 7000rpm, and that you'd be stupid to push it any harder. I cant wait to see your motor start shelling valvetrain parts at those rpms....... It just amazes me that you havent looked at GN guys are doing to go fast.... Those guys have found out what it takes to go fast with a 3800 turboed motor, and here you go off in another direction that ISNT going to work. Your aspirations of a 10 second daily driver V6 f body are humorous. In order to get a V6 f body into the 10s (your will not be the first, my guess is high 11s at best), the car would have to be really high strung. for it to be a daily driver and go 10s, you have to have way more power than you're going to, because you're compensating for a suspension that is built to still work on the street, and still have all amenities that are usually in a street car. Have a nice day

[T-Punk]

To get into the 10's you are going to have to shed some serious wheight imho. This would include but is not limited to; tubular upper and lower control arms, tubular k member, getting a light wheight battery, gett rid of your back seat, get lighter front seats, etc. there is a lot you will have left to do imho to get your car down to the 10's. If you really feal like hitting the 10 second mark wait a while and spend the $5000+ on the forged stroker kit from ZZP. that cuppled with everything else you have should be enough to get you close to the 10's and still have it as a somewhat daily driver (i have visions of a very rough idle).

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by GN-T66:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by viper04af:
jsut so you know what your getting into, i have about 10-15k in the motor alone, and 21,500 in the hole car, you auto will take a crap,(25,000 or more whe its all siad and done.

OILPAN: the 3.8 DOES NOT HAVE AL heads they are cast IRON
8:1 will be fine that's what intense drag car runs.


you will want to order tiagos kit and upgrade to the t-66 or t-72. that the mistak i made and only time will tell if the turbo will push my 7100 RPM limiter

it's obvious you really have no idea what you're getting into, and your knowledge of the 3.8 motor is very limited. I can tell from your parts list that you went to 3800 performance or whatever and simply bought the most expensive parts you could. half the ignition parts you bought you wont need with the tuning software first off. You really need to do some research on the fast GN guys, because let's face it, they're the only ones with fast 3800 cars. Talk to them, you'll find out that none of them are dumb enough to try to push a 3800 as high as 7000 rpm.. these motors simply dont make the power up there, they dont like to be run that high.... the faster GN guys do not push their motors like that. higher rpms do not equal more power, which you seem to believe. your heads wont support it, your cam probably wont work at those rpms either. My guess is once you get the car somewhat tuned (not by yourself, by a professional), you'll find that your power peaks long before 7000rpm, and that you'd be stupid to push it any harder. I cant wait to see your motor start shelling valvetrain parts at those rpms....... It just amazes me that you havent looked at GN guys are doing to go fast.... Those guys have found out what it takes to go fast with a 3800 turboed motor, and here you go off in another direction that ISNT going to work. Your aspirations of a 10 second daily driver V6 f body are humorous. In order to get a V6 f body into the 10s (your will not be the first, my guess is high 11s at best), the car would have to be really high strung. for it to be a daily driver and go 10s, you have to have way more power than you're going to, because you're compensating for a suspension that is built to still work on the street, and still have all amenities that are usually in a street car. Have a nice day </font>[/QUOTE]hey **** tard shut up *** hole.
i have been agtering these parts for over 1 year and resrching this for 2 years.

1. intense racing has been running 7100 RPM for MONTHS on them same setup on the FWD 3800. If you would have look at my mods page my heads were ground to take it. :rolleyes:

2. i'm upgrading the suspention parts, and if a LT1 can run 9's with basicaly the same stuff i have... umm lets see im sure i can pull a 10.99 witch is my goal.

3.th GN and 3800 II motor ARE IN NO WAY THE SAME MOTOR THERE ARE NO PARTS THAT INTRCHANGE. this has been proven buy Stefan already..

4. yes i got the DIS- multi channle boost reatard almost 1 YEAR ago before HP- tuners annouced they was going to do 1997 PCM's, and i still may need it because our cars do not have a 3 bar MAP senors and the PCM will not know the car is under boost and run full timing till it gets knock. so untill HP-tuners lets me swicth map sensors to the L67 one, i think i know were stand. [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img]

5. i know what i'm getting into BECUASE I ALREADY fu(kING DID IT. the redline V6 guys have seen my car in person. and Tiago will voutch i gave him money for the turbo kit.

any more jelous cut downs ?

any more questions ***

Edit: if you didn't know this motor is up and running without the turbo because of the delay. i have had the motor to 7100 rpm and bounce off it. and its sounds just like it use to at 6000 no pinging or weird noises even when hooked up to a senors at the local speed shop to find noisy valvetrain and it sounds fine and no valve float was found.
check the cam vid on my site that was 6800-6900 rpm rev

[ October 08, 2004, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: viper04af ]

[Teufel Hunden]

Originally posted by T-Punk:
If you really feal like hitting the 10 second mark wait a while and spend the $5000+ on the forged stroker kit from ZZP. that cuppled with everything else you have should be enough to get you close to the 10's and still have it as a somewhat daily driver (i have visions of a very rough idle).

I doubt anyone would need the stroker kit. The only thing a stroker motor will really provide for you is a slight increase in low end torque. To use a Grand National as an example again, even the very fast ones are using the stock displacement, not including maybe a bigger cylinder bore.

about the idle, a good turbo cam is very similar in duration and LSA, that they provide a very smooth idle. Only very extreme turbo cams (like the ones used in 6 and 7 second cars) are rough idle, not because of the cam itself, but because of all the other events when the car is not in boost.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by T-Punk:
To get into the 10's you are going to have to shed some serious wheight imho. This would include but is not limited to; tubular upper and lower control arms, tubular k member, getting a light wheight battery, gett rid of your back seat, get lighter front seats, etc. there is a lot you will have left to do imho to get your car down to the 10's. If you really feal like hitting the 10 second mark wait a while and spend the $5000+ on the forged stroker kit from ZZP. that cuppled with everything else you have should be enough to get you close to the 10's and still have it as a somewhat daily driver (i have visions of a very rough idle).

your missing my point THATS not my goal

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by viper04af:
hey **** tard shut up *** hole.
i have been agtering these parts for over 1 year and resrching this for 2 years.

1. intense racing has been running 7100 RPM for MONTHS on them same setup on the FWD 3800. If you would have look at my mods page my heads were ground to take it. :rolleyes:

2. i'm upgrading the suspention parts, and if a LT1 can run 9's with basicaly the same stuff i have... umm lets see im sure i can pull a 10.99 witch is my goal.

3.th GN and 3800 II motor ARE IN NO WAY THE SAME MOTOR THERE ARE NO PARTS THAT INTRCHANGE. this has been proven buy Stefan already..

4. yes i got the DIS- multi channle boost reatard almost 1 YEAR ago before HP- tuners annouced they was going to do 1997 PCM's, and i still may need it because our cars do not have a 3 bar MAP senors and the PCM will not know the car is under boost and run full timing till it gets knock. so untill HP-tuners lets me swicth map sensors to the L67 one, i think i know were stand. [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img]

5. i know what i'm getting into BECUASE I ALREADY fu(kING DID IT. the redline V6 guys have seen my car in person. and Tiago will voutch i gave him money for the turbo kit.

any more jelous cut downs ?

any more questions ***

Edit: if you didn't know this motor is up and running without the turbo because of the delay. i have had the motor to 7100 rpm and bounce off it. and its sounds just like it use to at 6000 no pinging or weird noises even when hooked up to a senors at the local speed shop to find noisy valvetrain and it sounds fine and no valve float was found.
check the cam vid on my site that was 6800-6900 rpm rev

The first line of your post sounds like how a 6 year old would respond. very mature... there's more to running quick times than buying all the suspension parts that work for someone else... Track times will tell, and I dont see any for your setup. Wait and see, I bet you have trouble even getting into the 11s. What do I have to be jealous of you about, my GN runs 10s consistently.....

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by Teufel Hunden:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by T-Punk:
If you really feal like hitting the 10 second mark wait a while and spend the $5000+ on the forged stroker kit from ZZP. that cuppled with everything else you have should be enough to get you close to the 10's and still have it as a somewhat daily driver (i have visions of a very rough idle).

I doubt anyone would need the stroker kit. The only thing a stroker motor will really provide for you is a slight increase in low end torque. To use a Grand National as an example again, even the very fast ones are using the stock displacement, not including maybe a bigger cylinder bore.

about the idle, a good turbo cam is very similar in duration and LSA, that they provide a very smooth idle. Only very extreme turbo cams (like the ones used in 6 and 7 second cars) are rough idle, not because of the cam itself, but because of all the other events when the car is not in boost. </font>[/QUOTE]mine idles fine and has only stalled one time. its got great lope it it but the cam does not wake up at all running NA till like 4000-4500 RPM lol then it pulls

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by GN-T66:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by viper04af:
hey **** tard shut up *** hole.
i have been agtering these parts for over 1 year and resrching this for 2 years.

1. intense racing has been running 7100 RPM for MONTHS on them same setup on the FWD 3800. If you would have look at my mods page my heads were ground to take it. :rolleyes:

2. i'm upgrading the suspention parts, and if a LT1 can run 9's with basicaly the same stuff i have... umm lets see im sure i can pull a 10.99 witch is my goal.

3.th GN and 3800 II motor ARE IN NO WAY THE SAME MOTOR THERE ARE NO PARTS THAT INTRCHANGE. this has been proven buy Stefan already..

4. yes i got the DIS- multi channle boost reatard almost 1 YEAR ago before HP- tuners annouced they was going to do 1997 PCM's, and i still may need it because our cars do not have a 3 bar MAP senors and the PCM will not know the car is under boost and run full timing till it gets knock. so untill HP-tuners lets me swicth map sensors to the L67 one, i think i know were stand. [img]graemlins/wavey.gif[/img]

5. i know what i'm getting into BECUASE I ALREADY fu(kING DID IT. the redline V6 guys have seen my car in person. and Tiago will voutch i gave him money for the turbo kit.

any more jelous cut downs ?

any more questions ***

Edit: if you didn't know this motor is up and running without the turbo because of the delay. i have had the motor to 7100 rpm and bounce off it. and its sounds just like it use to at 6000 no pinging or weird noises even when hooked up to a senors at the local speed shop to find noisy valvetrain and it sounds fine and no valve float was found.
check the cam vid on my site that was 6800-6900 rpm rev

The first line of your post sounds like how a 6 year old would respond. very mature... there's more to running quick times than buying all the suspension parts that work for someone else... Track times will tell, and I dont see any for your setup. Wait and see, I bet you have trouble even getting into the 11s. What do I have to be jealous of you about, my GN runs 10s consistently..... </font>[/QUOTE]then y give me sh!t? what would you do different? and it must be with parts that work for our motor

and drop the GN sh!t there not the same motor
you seem to be the only one on the board that does not beleave i can make and you sound like a v8 owner.

thers already and 3800 in the DEAP 10's its FWD car for gods sake,

so out with let here oh YOU would set up this motor, ?
and no i didn't go just go buy the most expensiv parts for the motor i got those cuase there the best thats made for this motor
edit: you are a v8 own go figure :rolleyes:

[T-Punk]

I would think with a big turbo the stoker would be more useful. since turbo motors dont tend to have low end power the stoker would essentially fill the power gap. also i think one of the main reasons that GN guys dont have stroked motors is because i dont think this is a stroker kit for the 3800 series I. and as for Viper's purchases... he has been purchasing parts for years and originally hp tuners software was only going to be for the 98+ so i will beleive his reason for having all the stuff he has. As for running 7000 rpm i dont think you will need to run that high, nor do i think it to be a good idea. I guess go ahead and try it and see where you make your most power in each gear and set the peak rpm accordingly. 6000-6500 would probably be more than enough though.

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by viper04af:
then y give me sh!t? what would you do different? and it must be with parts that work for our motor

and drop the GN sh!t there not the same motor
you seem to be the only one on the board that does not beleave i can make and you sound like a v8 owner.

thers already and 3800 in the DEAP 10's its FWD car for gods sake,

so out with let here oh YOU would set up this motor, ?
and no i didn't go just go buy the most expensiv parts for the motor i got those cuase there the best thats made for this motor
edit: you are a v8 own go figure :rolleyes:

In theory these motors are the same..... I understand that many certain parts arent exactly the same. The same theories apply to making good power in both motors. I dont care what your motor did NA on a dyno, when you start putting boost towards it is when you'll find out what happens when you rev it that high. In fact, GN guys would like to use the heads on your motor, because they flow alot better than GN heads.

And you keep saying I'm a V8 owner.. true indeed, but I also own the V6.....

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by GN-T66:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by viper04af:
then y give me sh!t? what would you do different? and it must be with parts that work for our motor

and drop the GN sh!t there not the same motor
you seem to be the only one on the board that does not beleave i can make and you sound like a v8 owner.

thers already and 3800 in the DEAP 10's its FWD car for gods sake,

so out with let here oh YOU would set up this motor, ?
and no i didn't go just go buy the most expensiv parts for the motor i got those cuase there the best thats made for this motor
edit: you are a v8 own go figure :rolleyes:

In theory these motors are the same..... I understand that many certain parts arent exactly the same. The same theories apply to making good power in both motors. I dont care what your motor did NA on a dyno, when you start putting boost towards it is when you'll find out what happens when you rev it that high. In fact, GN guys would like to use the heads on your motor, because they flow alot better than GN heads.

And you keep saying I'm a V8 owner.. true indeed, but I also own the V6..... </font>[/QUOTE]they you must know the heads are good

what im saying to the FWD HAVE put 19.5 PIS to these motors and HAVE done it at 7100 Rpm, i have the same vavle train they do.

were the hell do get NA dyno from? my na dyno was less then stock numbers beacuse of the turbo cam and lower c/r.

so instead of me getting this locked (sorry really stress out right now. , how about his

you make a mod list for this motor and what is so ungodly wrong with my set up instead of just cutting me down like many other v8 owner staing i have the wrong motor wrong set up v6 will never make 10 us v6 guys ARE SICK OF IT ALREADy even though i don't have the fuds to change any of it any way.

yes i could have saken the 21k and made 9 sec GN /V8 like every other person, but i like to live on the egeg and i like a chalange, not but this and this and you run 10's whats the fun in that? ( in know thers more to but th GN after market is HUGE)

so im asking put up or shut up and leave me alone eaither way 1. your going to get proven right or 2. im goign to make your jaw hit the floor

[T-Punk]

just out of curiosity what do you do to make these motors more powerfull if not a better valvetrain, port/polish heads, upgraded fuel and ignition system, forged internals, boost, turbo cam, exhaust, LSD with higher gears and a programmer? just curious cause that is what viper is doing. Granted there are some more mods to do to make the car hook up better (upgraded rear suspension and tires/wheels) but what else.

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by T-Punk:
just out of curiosity what do you do to make these motors more powerfull if not a better valvetrain, port/polish heads, upgraded fuel and ignition system, forged internals, boost, turbo cam, exhaust, LSD with higher gears and a programmer? just curious cause that is what viper is doing. Granted there are some more mods to do to make the car hook up better (upgraded rear suspension and tires/wheels) but what else.

thats the stuff you do, but with the dynamics of these motors, you dont need to rev them that high if your turbo setup works properly. a turboed 3800 motor will almost always make it's power at 6000rpm or less. if you choose the right cam and turbo, it will happen. so why choose the parts that require you to rev the motor so much higher, and put soo much more stress on things. at those engine speeds, valvetrain parts will not live that long. and those GTP rods wont like it either (yes I realize so and so has done it.. but how long will those last?) My other issue is making a V6 car a 10 second car and still have it be a daily driver..... it's unrealisitc, and most guys in the 10s realize that when they finally get their cars there. especially with a v6 car.. it's going to be a high strung little car, and if the suspension ends up working, it wont be a great setup to live with on the street either. BTW, just because an LT1 did it doesnt mean anything, those cars have the overabundance of torque to make a suspension work to go 9s.... your V6 wont have the instant torque with your manual tranny to launch like that. That being said, you have to make up for a lackluster 60 foot time with waaaaay more power. I dont think Viper will make that much power. And I think that T5 (unless heavily built like 5.0 guys do) will grenade if you hook it really hard.