how much boost??

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by GN-T66:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by T-Punk:
just out of curiosity what do you do to make these motors more powerfull if not a better valvetrain, port/polish heads, upgraded fuel and ignition system, forged internals, boost, turbo cam, exhaust, LSD with higher gears and a programmer? just curious cause that is what viper is doing. Granted there are some more mods to do to make the car hook up better (upgraded rear suspension and tires/wheels) but what else.

thats the stuff you do, but with the dynamics of these motors, you dont need to rev them that high if your turbo setup works properly. a turboed 3800 motor will almost always make it's power at 6000rpm or less. if you choose the right cam and turbo, it will happen. so why choose the parts that require you to rev the motor so much higher, and put soo much more stress on things. at those engine speeds, valvetrain parts will not live that long. and those GTP rods wont like it either (yes I realize so and so has done it.. but how long will those last?) My other issue is making a V6 car a 10 second car and still have it be a daily driver..... it's unrealisitc, and most guys in the 10s realize that when they finally get their cars there. especially with a v6 car.. it's going to be a high strung little car, and if the suspension ends up working, it wont be a great setup to live with on the street either. BTW, just because an LT1 did it doesnt mean anything, those cars have the overabundance of torque to make a suspension work to go 9s.... your V6 wont have the instant torque with your manual tranny to launch like that. That being said, you have to make up for a lackluster 60 foot time with waaaaay more power. I dont think Viper will make that much power. And I think that T5 (unless heavily built like 5.0 guys do) will grenade if you hook it really hard. </font>[/QUOTE]lets see HP i can change the re any time i want was i planing on running it at that all the time? no i was gogin to dyno tune the car and see were im making my power first then adjust it from there. the high limiter also lets you shift les time i can ****f into snd at 45 now not 30 and 3rd at like 70-75 no not 55-60.
but you didn't ask that did you you just thought i was some dumb militay guy that bought a buch of parts and put them together and called it fast I NEVER SAID IT WOULD RUN TENS I SAID 10.99 IS MY GOAL and my other goal is 550 RWHP witch i know i can make if the FWD put down 535 RWHP. and A STOCK 3800 PUT DOWN 350RWHP race gas 15 psi boost with only the DIS as a mod and spec stage 3.

Tpunk: i have done everything you siad 57# hour should cover it [img]graemlins/stickpoke.gif[/img]
basicaly my car is sitting there wait for the turbo
i will make that 10.99 sec even if it mean not getting my Z06 next year i will drive the car every day beacuase thats the hole point of the goal

gn-t66 this is my cam grind http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...174_2_full.jpg

the turbo is t3/t4 but i'm going to have to go to a t-66 to supply the motor i think

"thats like say the SPEC stage 5 clutch is not streetable". my *** i love that thing

[T-Punk]

totally got it and agree that 7000 is on the high side. and i agree that the valve train will not last forever at that level. i wish you had just said that earlier. I'm guessing you are in agreance with me then that the stroker is a good idea for a turbocharged v6 (purely for the off the line torque).

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by T-Punk:
totally got it and agree that 7000 is on the high side. and i agree that the valve train will not last forever at that level. i wish you had just said that earlier. I'm guessing you are in agreance with me then that the stroker is a good idea for a turbocharged v5 (purely for the off the line torque).

oh yeah im getting all my supension from my sponors as i get the money im not leaving any thingout

GN-T66
hey were can i fin stuff for my t i am worrired about it cutting off my foot.......
i am worried about the 10 bolt also but 2k for a 12 i need time to save

[T-Punk]

whoa bro, i was in agreance that you bought all the right parts. i do think that 7000rpm is high but im sure you would figure that out after the dino showed it was not needed. i just dont want a blown engine on your hands after you spent all that time building it up.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by T-Punk:
whoa bro, i was in agreance that you bought all the right parts. i do think that 7000rpm is high but im sure you would figure that out after the dino showed it was not needed. i just dont want a blown engine on your hands after you spent all that time building it up.

trust my guys im not crazy i will set it at what i think i need and the only time i would redline would be at the track any way

[T-Punk]

alright man, i'll just trust you to choose your rev limit wisely.

[nocutt]

I totally agree with GN-Txx...bigtime here!! Sometimes trying to be different doesn't mean ignore empirical data backed by years of trial & error...just because A COMPANY does it...means nothing to the average joe...MEDIA HYPE at its best!...No-one is saying you cannot rev, heck you can rev to 8K for all I care, but you have added FI, you don't need to whine the motor this high...as a matter of fact a big 3800 vendor has about the same specs on their 3800, unbeknowest to the masses they have gone thru a couple of rebuilds...do the masses know? have at it...with FI the more you rev, the more HP you can potentially make...but you aren't making the TQ (&lt; what you really need)...think supra powerband for a minute...lol!!

Anywayz don't take it personally...it's your mula
afterall...think of it as a difference in opinion...can you run 10s...sure!! daily driver...with all the stock amenities GM blessed the car with...no way!! @ least 700 horses from two hundred and thirty-one ci's...well hope you don't break the bank!!

...keep it simple and have fun!!

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by nocutt:


Anywayz don't take it personally...it's your mula
afterall...think of it as a difference in opinion...can you run 10s...sure!! daily driver...with all the stock amenities GM blessed the car with...no way!! @ least 700 horses from two hundred and thirty-one ci's...well hope you don't break the bank!!

...keep it simple and have fun!!

what you mean "with all the stock amenities GM blessed the car with..."

[phoenix64]

Originally posted by nocutt:
have at it...with FI the more you rev, the more HP you can potentially make...but you aren't making the TQ (&lt; what you really need)...think supra powerband for a minute...lol!!

I can't stress this enough, A cars quater mile time is dictated by Average horsepower between shift points. NOT TORQUE. This is just basic physics. All cars gain average HP by reving past their peak power out put.

Viper is not talking about a supra with a huge turbo that doesn't build boost till 6000 RPM, his turbo is on the small side. Because of this he may actually go slower by reving to 7100rpm but if he does it will be due to the turbo being way too small for his application.

But until you see a dyno you can't tell for sure. You would have to know his gear ratio's, so you could figure out the engines RPM band while going down the track, and then figure out where the greatest average horsepower is, then that dictates shift points.

[ October 09, 2004, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: phoenix64 ]

[phoenix64]

[/qb][/QUOTE]what you mean "with all the stock amenities GM blessed the car with..." [/QB][/QUOTE]

He means AC, radio, and full interior.

[nocutt]

LOL!! Well what do you think a T66 is?
Yes you aright untill we see a dyno we won't know...if we ever see a dyno of all these claims we have been subjugated to...

Let's leave the HP vs TQ debate saved for another day...but I will tell you this, you make it sound so simple...wish it were that black and white!!

[Arctc Wolf]

7000 rpm seems like it could be reasonable as long as the valvetrain was built to support it. our motor's rod/stroke ratio is vasically the same as aa Honda S2000 rod/stroke ratio, so the bottom end would be fine w/ it. stroking it as well as 7000 rpm seeemd like you could start running into problems since it'll stress out the crank and rod journals a lot more, plus it's been shaved for weight. I think one of the other would be good, till a forged 4.1 stroker comes out, or you cryo treat and shot-peen the stroker crank and hope it holds.

[phoenix64]

Originally posted by nocutt:

Let's leave the HP vs TQ debate saved for another day...but I will tell you this, you make it sound so simple...wish it were that black and white!!

As opposed to just saying torque wins races? and its really not a debate, like I said its basics physics.

In all honesty though no disrespect, I'm always up for learning please explain whats wrong with my reasoning?

As for the T66, I thought viper was using the standard kit turbo?

[ October 09, 2004, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: phoenix64 ]

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

[quote]Originally posted by phoenix64:

As for the T66, I thought viper was using the standard kit turbo?

i am FOR NOW [img]graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

BTW i dont really care i will HIT 10.99 even WITH MY SYSTEM IN THE CAR.

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by viper04af:
lets see HP i can change the re any time i want was i planing on running it at that all the time? no i was gogin to dyno tune the car and see were im making my power first then adjust it from there. the high limiter also lets you shift les time i can ****f into snd at 45 now not 30 and 3rd at like 70-75 no not 55-60.
but you didn't ask that did you you just thought i was some dumb militay guy that bought a buch of parts and put them together and called it fast I NEVER SAID IT WOULD RUN TENS I SAID 10.99 IS MY GOAL and my other goal is 550 RWHP witch i know i can make if the FWD put down 535 RWHP. and A STOCK 3800 PUT DOWN 350RWHP race gas 15 psi boost with only the DIS as a mod and spec stage 3.

Tpunk: i have done everything you siad 57# hour should cover it [img]graemlins/stickpoke.gif[/img]
basicaly my car is sitting there wait for the turbo
i will make that 10.99 sec even if it mean not getting my Z06 next year i will drive the car every day beacuase thats the hole point of the goal

gn-t66 this is my cam grind http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...174_2_full.jpg

the turbo is t3/t4 but i'm going to have to go to a t-66 to supply the motor i think

"thats like say the SPEC stage 5 clutch is not streetable". my *** i love that thing

First off, stop putting words in my mouth and assuming you know what I meant to say.. I said nothing about you being a dumb military guy, In fact, you seem to be the one throwing all the insults here calling me an ******* and ****tard in your initial response. Let's keep this as a nice little debate, and not a flame fest.

Dont quote what other people have done btw, because things dont always apply directly to your setup. what a fwd GTP did doesnt really mean anything, especially if it was with a blower (although at that level I am guessing a turbo).. INteresting that car that put down 350rwhp on a stock motor on race gas at 15 psi. Teufel Hunden put down identical numbers on a stock 3800 with pump gas (91 octane) and 10 psi boost.... says alot about system efficiency, especially since TF's numbers were through a full exhaust, cat and all.

BTW, it is my guess you're going to need more than 550rwhp to make 10s, considering how your car will launch, having to make up for excessive weight, and a compromising suspension. I'm sure you will be able to drive the car daily, but it will be one big rolling compromise. TO me, daily driver means it gives up little if any to factory options and factory driveability. I have no illusions about my GN... I can drive it on the street, and cruise it just fine, but it's no daily driver in my book.

On some other notes.... a SPEC 5 clutch isnt a clutch, it's an ON/OFF switch, and is by no means a comfortable clutch to drive on the street, but the one I felt was a V8 clutch, perhaps the V6 models a wimpier :D Also, I went 10s on my T66, my old turbo.. that T3/T4 cant get it dont on a stock motor in my opinion, so it surely wont support the power you're looking for. A T66 should though. My new turbo is a precision T4 Garret PT-67GTS.. nice unit, good for close to 800hp, or so they say ;)

Viper, you need to change your goal here.... this sint going to happen with a heavy car with an interior, bunch of useless stereo garbage, etc etc. at least for track duty if you want any shot at 10s, take out all that crap, and just put it back in for street duty. With full turbo setup, and all that crap, depending on your weight, you're looking at a 3500-3700lb raceweight, depending on what alot of the particulars weigh in at.

Arctc Wolf (or whatever)... 3800s are NOT honda S2000 motors, and shouldnt be compared to them. 7000rpm is an incredible amount of piston speed in a 3800 engine (piston speed is the key here).. it's too much IMO... piston speed kind of tells you how hard you're working a motor's rotating assembly, to say nothing of the added pressures of boost. remember, factory GM rods are not like aftermarket 4340 pieces... they're either 4130, or 5140, which are lesser forging materials. My guess is the GTP rods wouldnt like it for long.. those power levels and the insane rpms..

[ October 09, 2004, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: GN-T66 ]