Where did the pics of Batman's kit go?

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ravenp:


I'd take that bet ;) <hr></blockquote>

Sorry to burst all your bubbles but not every v6 fbody owner is part of this board... and not evey member on this board is immature.

I'll bet that this kit does well once it actually hits the market. To bad you all are judging a product and service that is still in its test phase.

I can't believe the negative ungrateful attitudes of some of the members that have been posting on this thread. It is really disapointing and feels like a slap in the face.

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ReodDai:
Ok ok If you all give me 5000 apiece I'll give you a shiney card that says "Beta Tester" on it, then I'll have a industrial hairdryer chromed and some piping welded to it. After this I will move to canada and leave instructions to a distant relative to ship the crates I left in their garage in 5 years and make sure no one answers the phone I left out there, just let the recorded message I left saying something like "Too busy working on the kits and trying to pay my late bills, Leave a message and I'll call you back when I get to my aunts computer or my half brothers cell phone". What do ya say?<hr></blockquote>

please do mankind a favor and think before you open your mouth.

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 93v6firebird:
Stefan and Jenn: It seems ridiculous that you guys are even contemplating taking those pics down. I cant actually believe you are scared of "copyright enfringement". Keep them up until Mock Performance (notice the play on words... I thought that was pretty clever) has cleared themselves of any possible fraud violations.

At this point I dont see any reason why you do not give the money back to your paying customers except for the fact YOU MUST NOT HAVE IT.
You had no right to accept several thousand dollars if you were going to take this long to turn it around. Its bad buisness
Now I am suspicious of fraud because now Batman is saying "Oh I dont have enough money to have internet". The first thing a buisnessman who is behind on bills does and is desperate to stay afloat does is start borrowing from funds that are not his b/c "he will pay them back when he starts turning a profit".
Batman, to protect yourself from these accusations you should return the money if you cannot produce the product for all pre-paid customers in 3 more days.
If you cannot give a refund at this time for services not rendered - you should pray that this"community" doesnt take your *** to the cleaners.
You've f*cked up. admit it.

It has nothing to do w/ whiney excuses or whiney accusations.
You and MP have engaged in poor buisness practices... which have now lead to very real accusations of fraud.

To the people who have dumped money into it... demand your money back. Go patronize a different company.
5 grand is a lot... I will not make a judgement call as to if this is too much, but I know of other places that can do similar things for less.

Have a pleasant day.<hr></blockquote>

Ummm the kits are on beta tester's doorsteps and this is fraud? I hope your not thinking of going to law school.

By the way, did you know that Bill took the time to polish the brackets and powder coat the beta tester's duct work to the color of their choice when all his other kits get straight black powdercoating with no choice at all? Did you know that Bill also prints his install manuals in color...not even ATI does that. Did you know that the beta testers can submit their car pictures and it will be in a collage with my car picture for a cover picture on the install manuals when the kit hits the public? Did you know that Bill does work on my car for free because he understands the kind of situation i am in and still wants to see this project through. Do you know that i haven't paid him in full but he is still continuing the project and getting it done regardless? Thats just some of the good things that i had time to post. Now you wonder why i think he is a good person and i believe in his work. If he was all about money he wouldn't do the things he does.


Thank you for taking the time to know whats really going on before you posted.

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Shirl:
I already have half the kit.

Nice of them to send you "half". When's the other "half" coming? Didn't they say that they wanted to get the kit put together as a "whole" kit before they send it out to anyone. [img]graemlins/thumbsdown.gif[/img] Sorry you are taking some flack for this.. but our members and especially the other "beta" people should be able to post their opinions on this topic. Knowledge is power. And this knowledge could have saved people several thousands of dollars. I just hope when the air clears, you guys get a half decent kit. Especially, after FirebirdGT made the comment about the kit's design not being up to par.<hr></blockquote>


The kits are shipped in halves like all kits because there is a limit to how much each box can way. ALL kits are shipped out this way. Its not their fault that the boxes arive at different times.

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tiago:
LMFAO Keith.


Robert (FirebirdGT), I am an ME myself and would like to hear your thoughts on the kit design and what you didn't aprove of, send me an Email or something ;) <hr></blockquote>

Yes please tell them how you got mad at Bill amd decided not to buy the kit because Bill wouldn't aggree to send you the blue prints of the entire design of the kit to meet your engineer's approval. The kit is designed to meet ATI's guidelines and meet their specs. If you have a problem with the design, please tell a mult-million dollar company like ATI that their design's don't meet your approval.

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Devious:


No it's not...

The reason BATMAN was made a moderator here was because the admins wanted to support him and the kit despite the enormous flak he was taking. They stuck their necks on the line and stood up for him and Bill time and time again... basically by using censorship (locking, editing, and deleting threads) to squash criticism.

But those days are over now.<hr></blockquote>

Your right... its not over... i like how all the bashing is allowed to go on without proof... and when the proof is finally provided that the kits are shipped and delivered the thread should be locked without appologies?

Its bad enough to accuse and bash a company without personal injury (meaning 90% of the posts made on this thread were made by non-beta testers) but you want the thread locked without appologies for unecessary flames? [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

[93v6firebird]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BATMAN:


Ummm the kits are on beta tester's doorsteps and this is fraud? I hope your not thinking of going to law school.

By the way, did you know that Bill took the time to polish the brackets and powder coat the beta tester's duct work to the color of their choice when all his other kits get straight black powdercoating with no choice at all? Did you know that Bill also prints his install manuals in color...not even ATI does that. Did you know that the beta testers can submit their car pictures and it will be in a collage with my car picture for a cover picture on the install manuals when the kit hits the public? Did you know that Bill does work on my car for free because he understands the kind of situation i am in and still wants to see this project through. Do you know that i haven't paid him in full but he is still continuing the project and getting it done regardless? Thats just some of the good things that i had time to post. Now you wonder why i think he is a good person and i believe in his work. If he was all about money he wouldn't do the things he does.


Thank you for taking the time to know whats really going on before you posted.<hr></blockquote>

I said 3 days turd muffin.
This was all based on the assumption that nothing would be different from the last several months and youd keep putting things off.

Im still waiting for the "other" (fifth or sixth) shoe to drop.

And yeah Im planning on going to law school...
I hope youre not planning on going to buisness school.

[Mighty Thor]

WHY IS THIS NOT LOCKED YET? The post said pics and here, it's turning into smack down fest. If you guys want to do this then do another post.

All I can say is that I'm glad that we have an ATI kit now that is soon to be release.

[imported_admin]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mighty Thor:
WHY IS THIS NOT LOCKED YET?<hr></blockquote>

Read what Devious said.

Time for some freedom of speech to reign supreme. What's the point of locking this thread? So no one else flames BATMAN or Mach Performance? We've been locking and deleting Beta kit flame fests for over 1.5 years now... times have changed. It's time to let the critics speak.

If BATMAN and/or Bill can't handle the criticism they're generating then maybe they should cancel their project.

[FirebirdGT]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BATMAN:
Yes please tell them how you got mad at Bill amd decided not to buy the kit because Bill wouldn't aggree to send you the blue prints of the entire design of the kit to meet your engineer's approval. The kit is designed to meet ATI's guidelines and meet their specs. If you have a problem with the design, please tell a mult-million dollar company like ATI that their design's don't meet your approval.<hr></blockquote>


No I don't recall getting mad, but yes, I f*cked up - I didn't get in the "contract" that purchase was subject to design review and approval. So shame on me for spending money on something I never saw.

I am in the REAL automotive business, and for EVERY one of our parts we manufacture for Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota and more, we have to provide all documentation to the customer for review and approval. In fact we don't get paid for anything until they approve it. It's called the "Production Part Approval Process" or PPAP and anyone who is in the industry knows EXACTLY what I am talking about.

This is NOT an ATI system it is Mach Performance. Their design, and I don't like how Bill designed it. Just the pictures alone, and I went "Oh Sh*t!". I'll never get involved in a project like this again.

So, I'll say it again - I want a refund.

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Stefan:


Read what Devious said.

Time for some freedom of speech to reign supreme. What's the point of locking this thread? So no one else flames BATMAN or Mach Performance? We've been locking and deleting Beta kit flame fests for over 1.5 years now... times have changed. It's time to let the critics speak.

If BATMAN and/or Bill can't handle the criticism they're generating then maybe they should cancel their project.<hr></blockquote>


Thats really what this is all about... isn't it. You're still upset that i never ran with your almighty design. Again it wasn't offense to you...it was just impractical to reproduce...and now you have proof cause your own girlfriend tried it and came to the exact same conclusion. No we aren't canceling the project or giving up on it like you did.

Despite all this negativity from everyone, we're moving forward with it cause we put a lot of time and hardwork into this kit. The quality, and workmanship, and results will speak for itself.

I am now hitting 9lbs of boost and things have been worked out since my last dyno. I know that as soon as i get back on my feet and have money to get another dyno, the results will be much better. I found a sparkplug wire that was burning against the headers (my fault for not being careful when i ran the new wires). It finally gave out on me this weekend and my engine misfired. I changed the wire today and my car is running better than it ever has.

I can handle criticism just fine. I don't know everything. I am not the brightest star in the world, but i will definately defend someone or something i believe in if i feel its right. No one is perfect stefan. Maybe Bill didn't answer a few phone calls or forget to return some, but that doesn't mean he has the worst customer service in the world. There are a lot of customers that are very satisfied with his work. They are not all locals either. It just means he is human and he made up for it by contacting everyone and delivering the goods. They might not have got the call right when they wanted it, or got the kit when they expected, but they did got the kit when it was ready for them to get it.

I am sure we will sell them soon enough. There are people already calling ATI for orders and ATI is very excited about the kit. The kit works and its a solid design. It may have taken a long time but i know it was worth the wait.

Out of everyone here, i am the one that has put the most money into this project. If anything i should be the one complaining and getting mad. Up until a few weeks ago, the Beta testers had only put 300.00 in each... and they got 350.00 OFF the price of the kit. I mean... they got 50.00 back. Where do you see them being ripped off?

Like i said.... this whole thing feels like a slap in the face....but then again...i shouldn't be suprised. I mean what do you expect from a board full of teenagers who are used to mommy and daddy giving them everything they want right when they want it and a board who's admin lets his pride come before his friends.

Don't get me wrong. I know not everyone on this board is like that. I know who the good people are and i really appreciate the maturity you've shown and the support you've given me through this entire process. I won't forget it.

Well...talk to you all later...have a great weekend :cool: [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by FirebirdGT:



No I don't recall getting mad, but yes, I f*cked up - I didn't get in the "contract" that purchase was subject to design review and approval. So shame on me for spending money on something I never saw.

I am in the REAL automotive business, and for EVERY one of our parts we manufacture for Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota and more, we have to provide all documentation to the customer for review and approval. In fact we don't get paid for anything until they approve it. It's called the "Production Part Approval Process" or PPAP and anyone who is in the industry knows EXACTLY what I am talking about.

This is NOT an ATI system it is Mach Performance. Their design, and I don't like how Bill designed it. Just the pictures alone, and I went "Oh Sh*t!". I'll never get involved in a project like this again.

So, I'll say it again - I want a refund.<hr></blockquote>

No refund...you can sell your spot or you can buy the kit. The kit works. It does what its supposed to do. It is not a bad design. It is a practical design. Your idea for the design is not practical to have people cut their throttle body. The kit delivers the power and performance that was promised. I am sorry it did not meet your engineering influenced expectations.

[twofaced]

Not to get off the flaming and bashing subject, but I have some honest true questions. I wont lie, if I had the funds, I would have signed up to be a beta tester. Hell I have even thought about buying the kit from whomever on here is selling it, but lack of funds means lack of the kit. Anyways, I am curious about some numbers, dyno? Was there ever a second or third go around without any mechanical problems? Another truth, I am saving now to buy the kit, if and when it comes available. I hear about this kit and that kit, but to be totally honest, this is the only kit I have heard about that actually exists. Has there been any thought to a price for us regular customers when the kit is release to the public, would be nice to know, so I can aim at saving that amount. Any financing, hehe, just kidding. Seriously, I would love to have some data, hard numbers, dyno results? I am in no hurry to get any results, but it would be nice to post data from the beta testers when it becomes available. Only my 2 cents. And batman, to keep any flaming, you could send the data in an email if you wish, I dont feel like being the one that starts another saga on here. Thanks for any help. Chris

[MrCoffee]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by twofaced:
Not to get off the flaming and bashing subject, but I have some honest true questions. I wont lie, if I had the funds, I would have signed up to be a beta tester. Hell I have even thought about buying the kit from whomever on here is selling it, but lack of funds means lack of the kit. Anyways, I am curious about some numbers, dyno? Was there ever a second or third go around without any mechanical problems? Another truth, I am saving now to buy the kit, if and when it comes available. I hear about this kit and that kit, but to be totally honest, this is the only kit I have heard about that actually exists. Has there been any thought to a price for us regular customers when the kit is release to the public, would be nice to know, so I can aim at saving that amount. Any financing, hehe, just kidding. Seriously, I would love to have some data, hard numbers, dyno results? I am in no hurry to get any results, but it would be nice to post data from the beta testers when it becomes available. Only my 2 cents. And batman, to keep any flaming, you could send the data in an email if you wish, I dont feel like being the one that starts another saga on here. Thanks for any help. Chris<hr></blockquote>


Probably the second reply that actually has some sort of purpose here. The first being red?s saying he got half the kit.
I dont see how a kit can be "bad" when it puts out 9psi intercooled.
I dont see the point in the grudge between Stefen and Batman
I dont see why some people are so impatient with something thats brand new.
I guess Im just ignorant or naive. I still have the feeling that all of you Beta testers will be extremely happy with your kits. And you?ll agree that the way some people acted on here was completely unnecessary and just childish.
In all seriousness, theres only 2 ways to do forced induction. This ATI kit, or Tiago?s. Thats it, there are no other ways worth mentioning. As for me, Im torn between the two.

[ September 06, 2003: Message edited by: MrCoffee ]</p>

[mattsv6]

look, i am not a backyard mechanic. nor do i work for a "mom and pop" workshop liek you think. i work in a professional engine building facility. i think that kieth wanting blueprints of the kit before seeing it was a valid request. this kit has been proven not too have been "blueprinted" before assembly started. if you had done this, alot of problems would have been spared. do you no how i no this ryan????? I DO THIS FOR A ****ING LIVING!! i am not trying too flame you or bill, i jsut wonder about alot of these things. when a customer buys an engine from my shop, they get a whole blueprint and parts list if they request it. this is good business and puts the customers mind and pocket at ease. i have been n sales for the last 6 years and i am not a child. what you guys are doing isnt very proficient and i am going too speak my mind. i am not the one calling you guys this and that with vulgarity. i jsut had a few valid points too show everyone that reads this. if you remember when you were going too go on the dyno for the first time i said good luck. i must have been jinxing you and your high-price blower kit. btw, my completely custom turbo kit only took 2 weeks start too finish once i had all the parts in.i could duplicate this kit in 2 days and be ready too ship it if anyone wants one. why is yours taking soo long?????