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Originally posted by HAZ-Matt: I have a little spreadsheet, and I am trying to see just how much air you are flowing. I've had to guess and fudge some numbers but I am seeing 40.1 lbs/min at 10psi, with a manifold temp of 75. That's using VE of 80%.
That's 302.8g/s
You're close. It's up to 39.99 @ 11500 Hz. I'm still playing with it, I stopped cause i wanted to give the car a rest. i was in and out of the car tuning for a good 5 hours or so.
The current tune is sometimes maxing out in second gear, rarely in 3rd, but not in 4th. It's a rough tune. IATs were at 100 plus or minus 5.
Originally posted by nocutt: You guys need to stop complicating an issue which isn't complicated...I have said this...again and again quit buying into other ppl post...you are not the first to do this and hopefully won't be the last. Use ideas that have worked for ppl and do your own research and see how it can equalize the condition...*don't buy a MAF without a known calibration*
The MAF <hardware> itself, dependent on which you have has a direct and specific correlation to WHAT IS PROGRAMMED. What is programed or pre-programmed can be skewed almost in 3-D with some form of interceptor (enter AFC, MAFt, ARC2 etc).
To proove you are Maxing the MAF, you need to eliminate other variables accordingly...
In reality it doesn't matter what MAF you put in...the hardware itself calculates in frequency ONLY, this is were one of the problem is...when the pcm receives this input assuming the "NEW MAF" isn't calibrated then airflow table is ^(%^%^...in other words...EFF'd! Three things now, 1.)make sure you are maxing the MAF (either one, stock or new) and where in the powerband it is happening...if you know post it!! 2.) The 85mm MAF SLP you cannot max out @ 12psi...except the Hardware itself is faulty/oiled (possibility) or not calibrated properly in your PCM...in which case, you will be messing with fire. I don't know who has tables for that 85mm MAF but I am sure someone is running that MAF on a turbocharged 231ci motor 3.) If everything you say is correct assuming you can support it with data; (meaning for those who cannot read between the line) you might have slightly overlooked something else then get/borrow a recalibrator (interceptor)that should get you were you need to be...
Right now it is difficult or becoming difficult to know how far off you are...x% close or xx% off...guys becareful
Nocutt,
I'd be more than happy too send you the tune and the scan. Now correct me if i am wrong please. The way i understand it. is the MAF send a Hz signal to the PCM. The MAF sends the signal according to how it is calibrated. If it's calibrated for 15Lb/min at 10000 HZ. Once it measures 15LB/min then it will send a 10000HZ signal to the PCM. The PCM then cross references this to the tune able table in HPtuners. This number is then used to calibrate how much fuel to add.
If this statement is a correct statment (multiple tuners and told me this) then I'm confused how i am going about this incorrectly? Upgrading the MAF to a MAF that reads larger amounts of air at each Hz signal makes sense to me. Since it appears that i am maxing out this MAF then getting the MAF recalibrated makes complete sense to me if it works...... What am i missing?
Edit: additionally, I am reading both Hz and LB/min individually. Give me a min i'll post one where i maxed it.....
Now remember this is a very rough tune I have not been able to do much with it, so please, if you are going to point out how stupid the tune is don't. I mainly wanted to see if the MAF would fix the problem. Which it did not, but it is allowing me to run more boost. If you have suggestions please feel free to leave them....
Notice the Hz reading and the LB/min reading. Then go down and look at the injetor pusle with (7.2). That happens every time i max the MAF.
Now remember this is a very rough tune I have not been able to do much with it, so please, if you are going to point out how stupid the tune is don't. I mainly wanted to see if the MAF would fix the problem. Which it did not, but it is allowing me to run more boost. If you have suggestions please feel free to leave them....
hey how did you get it read the MAF HZ...... mine just says 0............. never moves
www.turbov6camaro.com 1997 3800 Series II Camaro 4600 Stall for my ride to the mall :chug: 7.18 @ 99.77 1/8 -1.8x sixty (current quickest v6 fbod) 11.23 @ unk 5 1/4 - 7.19 1/8 - 1.83 sixty
Now remember this is a very rough tune I have not been able to do much with it, so please, if you are going to point out how stupid the tune is don't. I mainly wanted to see if the MAF would fix the problem. Which it did not, but it is allowing me to run more boost. If you have suggestions please feel free to leave them....
hey how did you get it read the MAF HZ...... mine just says 0............. never moves </font>[/QUOTE]I could not figure it out for 4 weeks! u have to add it via the table, it's really odd and hard to explain. I can just send you the Config table if you want?
Now remember this is a very rough tune I have not been able to do much with it, so please, if you are going to point out how stupid the tune is don't. I mainly wanted to see if the MAF would fix the problem. Which it did not, but it is allowing me to run more boost. If you have suggestions please feel free to leave them....
Notice the Hz reading and the LB/min reading. Then go down and look at the injetor pusle with (7.2). That happens every time i max the MAF.
umm acodering to my stock tune i max out the MAF at 37.91 lb/min
you maxing this one out at only 36.94...... wierd
www.turbov6camaro.com 1997 3800 Series II Camaro 4600 Stall for my ride to the mall :chug: 7.18 @ 99.77 1/8 -1.8x sixty (current quickest v6 fbod) 11.23 @ unk 5 1/4 - 7.19 1/8 - 1.83 sixty
Pat,
No you aren't stupid...that is not my style ;)
I am looking at the shot right now...Ok question?
I see ~40lb/min air @ 5243RPMs? Is the ceiling in this PCM 11.5Khz? because I am seeing ~11.7Khz!?!?
You are absolutely correct as to how the MAF works. rudimentary anywayz we don't really care about little variables right now...
What you have essentially done with the bigger MAF is created more cross-sectional area...in effect you have slowed down the air...this should translate into a low frequency reading...you cannot correlate the old MAF values to the new one...maybe I am mistaking how you doing this...the values for the bigger MAF...not frequency, but rather the lookup table...the g/s table has to be changed...I don't have HPT so I don't know if they have the table or not...
I really hope we are the same page...My question is whose values, what values are you adding/changing? where you provided with a calibration table? or are you doing the math yourself!?!?
THE ORIGINAL 3800SII turbo...<b><i>NOW SERIES-III</i></b>
Originally posted by nocutt: Pat,
No you aren't stupid...that is not my style ;)
I am looking at the shot right now...Ok question?
I see ~40lb/min air @ 5243RPMs? Is the ceiling in this PCM 11.5Khz? because I am seeing ~11.7Khz!?!?
You are absolutely correct as to how the MAF works. rudimentary anywayz we don't really care about little variables right now...
What you have essentially done with the bigger MAF is created more cross-sectional area...in effect you have slowed down the air...this should translate into a low frequency reading...you cannot correlate the old MAF values to the new one...maybe I am mistaking how you doing this...the values for the bigger MAF...not frequency, but rather the lookup table...the g/s table has to be changed...I don't have HPT so I don't know if they have the table or not...
I really hope we are the same page...My question is whose values, what values are you adding/changing? where you provided with a calibration table? or are you doing the math yourself!?!?
that MAF range is 12000 HZT but or pcm only has vuale's for for 11500.. after that it shuts the fuel off
let me get you shot
www.turbov6camaro.com 1997 3800 Series II Camaro 4600 Stall for my ride to the mall :chug: 7.18 @ 99.77 1/8 -1.8x sixty (current quickest v6 fbod) 11.23 @ unk 5 1/4 - 7.19 1/8 - 1.83 sixty
I have tuned the values up because I was running lean in that tune. I am dunmping a good bit of fuel via the PE table. So if the values seem low (the LBper min) that's cause i have compensated it in the PE table.
Hey guys...Im a little confused here, but I had another thread where a guy posted this table. Its is g/sec, I think. Hope this may help. http://home.cfl.rr.com/akaeh/HighOct.JPG
If it cant Flow it, FORCE it!<br /><br />1999 M5 Camaro RS. Boost is on the way. Cartech FMU, 255 intank, T3/T4 BB 62-1 , Stage 5 turbine wheel .63 A/R.
Originally posted by nocutt: Pat answer question...whose values, what values are you using to correlate for g/sec table...or are you doing the math yourself...eg like % or random?
At this point it's really random. I have been working with a tune that a tuner started on (on a mustang dyno) but was unable to finish because of time and he could not get past the problem i am having. So I have been working off his tune. He dropped the air to to max out at 32 lb/min @ 11500 Hz. He was dumping fuel via the PE table. This weekend i noticed @ 10 PSI i was running lean, So i was adding anywhere from 5% to 10% fuel; starting from 2600RPMS which I think was around 8000-9000 Hz already. That's how i got to the setting now, which is at 39.99 @ 11500 Hz.
Does this answer your question?
HP tuners does not have a great help file, So i have been using my logic (which I be the first to admit it's not always correct logic) to attack tuning on my car. I have had some help from other people as well. Explanations of how a lot of this correlates together and some of the concepts I understand. I could prob. tune a stock car fairly easy. But tuning for FI has defiantly been a change for me. I'll get there sooner or latter. I hope sooner than latter [img]smile.gif[/img]
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