Squires Turbo System (rear mounted)

[Nicklz]

You have to have the properly sized turbo to counteract the cooling gasses. Read the first link addresses the formula's to compute the needed sizes for different set ups, taking into affect the exhaust temp and pressure on the inlet side of the turbo housing.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._techinfo.html
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...urbospeak.html

I do agree with you about smaller pipe limiting top end performance. I was just confronting the issue of turbo lag. You'd of coarse want to find the best middle ground. You can't have high boost numbers at the top end and no turbo lag at low rpm's, or vice versa.

[Nicklz]

And under hood heat produced by the combination of turbo/engine will wear out parts eventually. You can't say that roughly 1500degree exhaust going through a turbo which builds heat even further, is good for the turbo or other engine acessories.

[Teufel Hunden]

Originally posted by phoenix64:
TH you have pretty long pipes yourself. If you think short pipes are so important, why did you pick the design you did?

My pipes aren't long... you're the only person who seems to think so, as everyone (literally everyone) who has seen the setup in person has had nothing to say about the length of the pipes. This is the second time you've tried to say that my pipes are too long, and i'm not sure why you're so focussed on that. Even if they were abnormally long, they're still ALOT shorter than the STS pipes.

[phoenix64]

How much do you really think it reduces underhood heat?

To make 7psi of boost, requires a certain amount of energy. Heat=energy, your giving up most of your heat as it goes to the back of the car. So you have to put more heat into it initialy.

So not only do you have more backpressure at 7psi than a front mount car, you headers would be much hotter than a front mount car. In the end, its actually harder on the engine.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

ok guys i don't cRE IF you debate about this and GN and TH have many valid points as does haz-matt and others......

1. please don't bash PEOPLE

2. please don't start something just cause you really don't like the set up there doing offer them FACTS and advice on what they are doing and let them make up there mind of the 2 kits.... no need for member to feel attacked because a few peeps dont like the STS kit...

notice the newer members stoped post ofter the war stared.... this is not what the Admins of the site want....

yes you should correct other members if they are wronfully informing others but please dont put those down that have the kit and are happy with it.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by Nicklz:
And under hood heat produced by the combination of turbo/engine will wear out parts eventually. You can't say that roughly 1500degree exhaust going through a turbo which builds heat even further, is good for the turbo or other engine acessories.

sorry man the turbo don't biuld any more heat.... is does concentrate it into one spot but it does not make the exuast gas's hotter... its using the engery from the heat to spool/ stay spooled so if anything it cools the exuast be cuase it provides more surface area for heat to escape..

it does heat p the intake charge but thats a different story and affect different parts

[phoenix64]

Originally posted by Teufel Hunden:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by phoenix64:
TH you have pretty long pipes yourself. If you think short pipes are so important, why did you pick the design you did?

My pipes aren't long... you're the only person who seems to think so, as everyone (literally everyone) who has seen the setup in person has had nothing to say about the length of the pipes. This is the second time you've tried to say that my pipes are too long, and i'm not sure why you're so focussed on that. Even if they were abnormally long, they're still ALOT shorter than the STS pipes. </font>[/QUOTE]Settle. I NEVER said they were too long. I merely asked why.

I'm not the one bashing other kits for having too long of pipes. All I'm asking is why you didn't do headers when your comparing STS to microbes on dog ****.

For the record heat loss is exponetial, the longer the pipe, the less the heat loss per inch. So your a lot closer to those microbes than you think. ;)

[Teufel Hunden]

Originally posted by phoenix64:
Settle. I NEVER said they were too long. I merely asked why.

I'm not the one bashing other kits for having too long of pipes. All I'm asking is why you didn't do headers when your comparing STS to microbes on dog ****, when your kit is closer to STS, than a header kit.

For the record heat loss is exponetial, the longer the pipe, the less the heat loss per inch. So your a lot closer to those microbes than you think. ;)

As i said.. you're the only person around here that's concerned at all with the length of my pipes... I think you'd find yourself better occupying your day retarding your timing some more, rather than trying to find what's "wrong" with my setup, Mr. 8º.

If you look at my setup, you'll find many similarities between the routing of the pipes on my car and those on LS1 and LT1 Frount mount, non forward sweeping header setups. Now, compare those dyno graphs to those of the best looking STS graphs. ;) Obviously placing the turbo in front of the motor, and running that short bit of pipe from the headers up to it, isn't as detrimental as running the exhaust all the way back to the muffler. You're grabbing at straws here... especially since you've never seen the car in person.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

ok fine i try to be a nice and a cool mod.... cut the crap or i'll cut posts and/or the hole thread

PLAY NICE

[phoenix64]

Viper, you are all free to bash my setup as much as you want. My headers flow for ****.

Like I said, this is not a "mines better than yours post". Mine is ****tier than yours. Do you feel better now? and I tried retarding my timing more, but once I went past 4* the paint started peeling off my hood.

How am I grabing at straws? I was just trying to convince you that you shouldn't attack other peoples setups. Especialy when yours isn't perfect. State the facts and leave it at that. No need to be an *** about it.

[ March 17, 2005, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: phoenix64 ]

[John_D.]

I always thought I had a pretty long pipe myself... And I'm modest too.... [img]smile.gif[/img]

But anyway, yes, a closer turbo and hotter exhaust gases are more efficient and can produce more horsepower. And a 150 nitrous shot can produce more horsepower than a 100 shot. But.... so what....?

If I pick a turbo setup that nets me the hp target I'm shooting for, and it fits my budget, and it's easy to install, then I met my objective. The whole efficiency argument starts to sound like a lack of efficiency is a problem in and of itself, but it's not. It's not like that lack of efficiency is hurting my miles per gallon, or my times, or my hp. It's just a different way of getting to the same place.
(as long as I'm not getting horrendous lag or something).

As a side note, I'm running an automatic on a stock 10 bolt, so I'd rather full boost come on after I've rolled out of the hole, to preserve the drivetrain parts... Yeah, it's not the "killer" setup, but I wasn't shooting for the killer setup.

[Nicklz]

Ok, the air charge is heated, by the process of the turbo. That air charge's heat is transferred to the turbo's housing. If you don't believe me run you car around the block a few times. Park it then put your hand on the turbo housing. (disclaimer - nicklz is not responsible for the skin and flesh melting off your hand)

I've been an active member of the mr2 community for a long time. No offense meant to anyone here, but these guys really, really know thier stuff when it comes to turbos.

I really don't understand the lack of ability to grasp the concept of this.
Please Read:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._techinfo.html

The points some of you have raised are valid consideration when comparing front mount vs. rear mount. Although your not taking into consideration the rear mount style wouldn't have the same charateristics as the front mount turbo.

Please read the above link, it's the basics of turbo charging.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by Nicklz:
Ok, the air charge is heated, by the process of the turbo. That air charge's heat is transferred to the turbo's housing. If you don't believe me run you car around the block a few times. Park it then put your hand on the turbo housing. (disclaimer - nicklz is not responsible for the skin and flesh melting off your hand)

I've been an active member of the mr2 community for a long time. No offense meant to anyone here, but these guys really, really know thier stuff when it comes to turbos.

I really don't understand the lack of ability to grasp the concept of this.
Please Read:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._techinfo.html

The points some of you have raised are valid consideration when comparing front mount vs. rear mount. Although your not taking into consideration the rear mount style wouldn't have the same charateristics as the front mount turbo.

Please read the above link, it's the basics of turbo charging.

accualy when you compress air it heats up, laws of phyics... not heat transfer

[Nicklz]

Exactly my point air is under compression = more heat = hotter turbo housing = more added heat under the hood. (If mounted in the front)

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

IMO the wight of the turbo system hurts the performance of the car more then the little bit of added heat under the hood