VS cam and boost?

[BadAzzRS]

i'll try to explain it in a simple term.

basically the turbo is forcing the air into the intake, and nature sucks it out of the combustion.

since you are forcing air into the intake, it is good to compress as much as you can or want.

after combustion process is completed no more air or a very very very small ammount of air is left. when the exhaust valve is opened the exhaust is pushed and sucked out very quickly. This is caused by a vacuume.

Look at what happens when you are in a car and you light up a cigarette. when you are stopped air pressure is the same inside and outside.

when you are at highway speeds air pressure changes, the pressure is lower outside of the car at highway speeds. the smoke is then sucked out of the car. that is what the vacuume effect is.
oxygen is heavier than Carbon Dioxide, so oxygen will always take the space of carbon dioxide.

oxygen tries to take up as much space as possible at 14.7 psi at sea level as we know it.

think of air not as an invisible gas, think of it like it is a liquid that has a volume.

air does have a volume.

Well, hope this helps you understand a little bit.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

UMM NOT ONLY THAT

turbo like less on the exuast side, so you dont contaminate the in coming air and 2 becuase the turbo cause back PSI so you want to open the vavle and get the exaust out, but dont want it to come back in as the piston goes down (remember there more exuast PSI with the turbo) so you close the exuast sooner so it can spool the turbo (or keep it spooled) and so the exuast don't push back into the chamber and ignite the incoming air mixture whitch is REALLY bad. turbo cam have less vavle over lap then the SC cams look at the diif in specs on intense's web site

like Tiago said less over lap is GOOD
my turbo cam

224/215
.336/.334
116 LSA

dont forget the turbo cuase's ALOT of back pressure. thus the exuast will not flow out of the chamber as easly, and this goes against the C02 being lighter,

basically a big turbo cam will run like sh!t NA or supercharged


get the exuast out and "make the "door" hit it in the a$$" lol

hope this helps

[ May 04, 2004, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: viper04af ]

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by ellik:
Im going to ask this question here. I have had a bit of a change in heart and will be planning on Tiagos kit next year when I wont have to strain for the money. In the meantime, Im planning on a cam in the next couple of months. Originally I was going to put in the 4x4 Extreme cam and stay NA, but now with turbo in the future, I want to know what your opinions are on the VS cam when used w/ the turbo kit? Other suggestions are appreciated, but I only want to swap cams once, and it has to be something that will run good NA for the next year.

umm y not save the money and do everything at the same time that way you could go with a bit bigger cam for now >???

BTW i might need a hand in jun-july to get my motor in my car, i can't buy beer but i'll get the wings and spot you a few for the beer or have my dad grab you a 12 pack......

[serpint]

Just to clarify. CO2 does not weigh less than O.

http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic/default.htm

C = 12.01 g/mol
O2 (Oxygen is never found as a single atom in nature) = 32.00 g/mol

12.01 + 16.00 + 16.00 = 44.01 g/mol for CO2.
16.00 + 16.00 = 32.00 g/mol for O2.

Slight difference there.

The reason the Burned mixture wants out so bad is that it is superheated and under extreme pressure. Opening the exhaust valve offers an easy way out for the mix (as opposed to say going around your piston rings). With the piston pushing back against the burned mixture, it also helps force the mix out of the cylinder. Less overlap = good since it doesn't let the intake valve open so early as to let the mix blow right out of the cylinder. A long exhaust duration just means there is less of the old, burned up mix still in the cylinder. Less of the old mix in the cylinder means you have more fresh mix in there and more fresh mix = better burn = more HP.

[ellik]

[quote]Originally posted by viper04af:

umm y not save the money and do everything at the same time that way you could go with a bit bigger cam for now >???

BTW i might need a hand in jun-july to get my motor in my car, i can't buy beer but i'll get the wings and spot you a few for the beer or have my dad grab you a 12 pack......

because I need instant gratification.... ? [img]smile.gif[/img] I could hold off and do suspension work in its place, but I was hoping to hit 14's this summer and I think a cam would put me there. also, I dont want a HUGE turbo cam, just one that is going to run well.

Let me know when you are going to put your engine back in.... I'll come down for a weekend to help out.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

umm looked at the intense stage 2 cam ??? its not huge but seem it would still make good power?

[ellik]

Will check it out. Maybe I will just hold off till after the turbo...

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

if you get cam and the lifters, rods, install kit w/timgin china and springs (130#) and retainers its about $1200
turbo like 2800

[ellik]

Originally posted by viper04af:
if you get cam and the lifters, rods, install kit w/timgin china and springs (130#) and retainers its about $1200
turbo like 2800

remember, Im not going w/ all top end components like you.... I dont need the fastest v6, just a respectable one. Ive got 70k on this engine. I just want to slap the cam in and go. I'll run the engine till it dies then put another one it.
I just want to get to a decent point and move onto the carbed and blown 3.4 Lotus. :D

[BadAzzRS]

crap your right, thanks for clarifying c02 is heavier, but my theory still stands, since there is still a vacuume

helium is lighter than air that what i was thinking of lol

do you guys think if you put helium into a engine it will get a loud ricey pitch? ;)

[serpint]

Helium burns yes, but its energy output is way too low to run a car engine. It wouldn't be able to keep the car running I bet.

Also, in a turbo app, as you stated, there is a ton of backpressure. This negates a large part of any vacuum effect since the exhaust is trying to get back into the cylinder (the turbo and/or intercooler is acting as a blockage in the pipe which will increase backpressure). The biggest reason the exhaust gasses are trying to get out of the cylinder in a FI application is due to pressure in the cylinder. There is very little to no vacuum when you stick a big blockage in the pipe.

Who knows, maybe a very small duration (say 210/205) cam might have an even more positive effect on the turbo since the cylinders would be able to fire more often, increasing the amount of high pressure gasses trying to get into the exhaust manifolds. I might have to run some numbers tonight with a small duration cam in a FI application. Does anyone have flow numbers from the turbos in the kit?

[HAZ-Matt]

Helium will not burn. There is a reason they call it an inert gas. Now if you take it up to 100,000,000K you can fuse it.

[serpint]

Ever put a match to a helium balloon? It doesn't burn... hrm...


It's inert because it doesn't react with other substances. It's not inert because you can't knock electrons off of it or knock their orbits around (which produces of all things... LIGHT - which is associated with reactions). Helium often occurs as bonded pairs of atoms with a very low bond strength, a simple match flame can break the bonds due to the electrons given off by the flame interacting with the helium atoms.

[BadAzzRS]

Iv heard shorter duration \ high lift is very acceptable on turbocharged motors running large ammounts of boost.

Also iv heard higher duration and high lift works great.

But I think both will work fine, and i believe depending on the cam duration and lift will greatly determine where power is made, and the fact RPM's will change also, perhaps more horsepower will show at a certain rpm when speaking of one cam compared to another where more torque is being produced with another cam at the same rpm, or maybe infact power increases greatly at higher rpms rather than lower even while the turbo is spooled, vice versa.

The cam is a very powerful piece of metal.

You can royaly F up your motor. Thats why I consult thrasher\intense\zzp, these guys are dedicated to working on our engines.

I'd just go with the Turbo cams that intense supplies, ZZP supports mostly the SC\NA community.
Plus Im sure Intense could maqke adjustments if you dont want there exact cam specs they advertise.

[ May 07, 2004, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: BadAzzRS ]

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

well i used intense spec but when i called compcams to make the wouldn't do those exacxt specs, the did them alittle diferent they said it would work beter (this was the guy that did the cams for our cars)