Looks like the price on kit is going to go up....

[Ironman24]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BATMAN:

If you have the $$$ to put towards another engine and a rebuild, and you don't care about the waranty, then throw the 12psi on and see if it works. If your engine blows, you always have your 2nd engine and a rebuild to get the boost you want.<hr></blockquote>

I have a 2nd motor that's going to get built up for higher boost. Do you think Bill would put the 12lb pulley on the the blower from the start if I request this?

I emailed him photos of my 98 setup.

Also, I'm dyin to see the pics you posted but still can't get that link to work in the other post.

Thanks!

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ironman24:


I have a 2nd motor that's going to get built up for higher boost. Do you think Bill would put the 12lb pulley on the the blower from the start if I request this?

I emailed him photos of my 98 setup.

Also, I'm dyin to see the pics you posted but still can't get that link to work in the other post.

Thanks!<hr></blockquote>


Here are the pics:

http://groups.msn.com/BATMANsV6Batmo...hoto&PhotoID=6

Thats the updated link. Just keep hitting next

[ May 29, 2003: Message edited by: BATMAN ]</p>

[navyblue2000]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BATMAN:



Yeah, but some of us crazy fools are dertermeind to have a fast 6.

I know as well as anyone who has pourder time and $$ and heart and soul into their six.... with the money we have spent, we could have had a fast V8... but then again... those are around every where.

I went to a cruise last night. Parked my car and opened the hood. You should have heard the comments i got.

For once, i wasn't called a ricer.
For once, i didn't get the comeent "its only a v6"

I head comments like:
"Damn!, its a supercharged V6!"

"thats different"

"That is the baddest firebird i have ever seen"

"with 10 psi, you should be able to run with an LS1, but with the less weight, you can defiantly suprise a driver and may beat them"

"Nice setup"

i mean... i didn't hear one bad comment.

We've scheduled the dyno for friday. I want to try an take it to the track, but the weather here has been very bad for the track- its always raining at some point in the day.

ANYWAYS... the point is. I could have had a v8, but... i want to be one of the fastest 6 out there. I want to beat James to the 11 sec mark... and if he gets there before me. I want to get to the 10 sec mark [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

that's cool. I'd like to be fast too. Just no $$ to do so right now :(

I'll always have the six. wouldn't ever trade it for the 8.

[98GREENGLOW]

WOA!!! If the 10 lb pully works just as good as the 7 lb pully and your guage is always reading 10 psi then you'll defiently have LS1 performance. With 8-9 psi people have been pulling 14 flat or even better (as in Shirls case). With that 10 psi you should defiently be in the 13's. Well we'll just have to wait and see but high 13's seem very possible right now. 13 SECOND CAR AT ALL TIMES.....DAYAAM!

[BATMAN]

By the way, does anyone here know what it feels like to put a piece of paper by your air filter during idle and feel it being sucked out of your fingers and have it stick to the air filter because a blower on the other end is sucking the air in? If not i will tell you... its a great feeling [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]

[ May 29, 2003: Message edited by: BATMAN ]</p>

[RedAudiomobile]

BATMAN, when are these kits able to ship to the BETA testers?

I also emailed you with pics of my 98 engine bay, as well as a few question on pcm tuning.

Can you please reply, I emailed to the ford.com one. Thanks.

Chris

[1smurfman]

Hey guys, this sounds great. Any idea what the install price on one of these kits would cost, and does it differ if your a beta tester?

[SLOWBRAEATER]

batman,so the prices on the 7 and 10 psi kits are the same? why would anyone buy a 7 psi kit for the same price as they can get a 10 psi kit? if someone wants tuning with 7 psi its the same price as tuning with 10 psi. honestly im not putting down bill but maybe he should get ahold of dave buckshaw, he knows what hes doing on the tuning deal, him and zooomer are the man [img]smile.gif[/img] and they charge a hell of alot less than 500.00 [img]graemlins/omg.gif[/img]

[Jimothy]

Out of curiosity, will you be putting together a site to advertise/sell this kit from? And then, where is all this based, location wise, cuz I'm in WA...

[imported_admin]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Deuce Bigs:
that's still cheaper than most ls1 kits.<hr></blockquote>

No it's not. Go to www.tbyrne.com and check. Besides, most LS1 owners have a lot more cash than most V6 owners.

There is a catch 22 with the Mach Performance 3.8 kit. It's ultra-high-quality, ultra-high-price. V6 owners, in general, can't afford to spend big bucks on quality. If they could, they would have bought the V8 in the first place. A V6 kit should be as cheap as possible as long as it is functional, without all the cost increases associated with powdercoating, laser-cut pieces, custom intercoolers, custom PCM programming, etc.

Also, keep in mind that no other Vortech or ATI kits require PCM tuning, that should not be an issue for this kit either regardless of what Bill says. Why would his kit require it when others that push more boost do not? No need to change the fuel curves, that is taken care of by the inline fuel pump and FMU. If you want more precise control, adding an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and replacing the inline pump and OEM in-tank pump with something like a Walbro will do the same thing but much better. Retarding the timing? Just get an MSD or Crane ignition retard box like the one that comes with non-intercooled kits. The computer does not need to be touched no matter what you do. And $500 is a fortune for programming, sounds to me like a marketing tool...

But that's just my view on the subject. It sounds very steep to me but who knows. I hope 10 people can come up with the money and it can become real so Jenn and I can have some fellow blown V6's to race at AIS 3. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[TOBY]

YOU SAID IT STEFAN ULTRA-HIGH-QUALITY.YOUR GOING TO CRY ABOUT SPENDING AN EXTRA 500.00 DOLLARS ON A PRODUCT THAT WORKS. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOUR THE ONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING. YOU CANT JUST SIMPLEY BOLT ON A BLOWER AND EXPECT IT TO WORK WITHOUT MAKING CHANGES TO THE TO THE SYSTEM. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU SHOULD STAY ON THE PORCH INSTAD OF TRYING TO GO FAST. HAVE A NICE DAY.

[L32EatonProject]

Wow...

That seemed a bit rude. But, anywho... Since you've wrapped up development for the 3.8L kit, what about us 3.4L guys. Really (as my old friend would say "Where's the love!")? ;)

Jon

[imported_admin]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TOBY:
YOU SAID IT STEFAN ULTRA-HIGH-QUALITY.YOUR GOING TO CRY ABOUT SPENDING AN EXTRA 500.00 DOLLARS ON A PRODUCT THAT WORKS. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOUR THE ONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING. YOU CANT JUST SIMPLEY BOLT ON A BLOWER AND EXPECT IT TO WORK WITHOUT MAKING CHANGES TO THE TO THE SYSTEM. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU SHOULD STAY ON THE PORCH INSTAD OF TRYING TO GO FAST. HAVE A NICE DAY.<hr></blockquote>

Um... okay? [img]graemlins/thumbsdown.gif[/img]

In case you didn't know... I own the world's first Procharged 3.8 Firebird. I've had my car supercharged since April of 1999. It's taken FOUR YEARS for someone to develop a system that can match or beat mine in efficiency and performance. Back in November of 2001 I drove up from Virginia Beach to Detroit so that BATMAN could blueprint MY DESIGN and hopefully turn that into a kit. That's right, it was TealV6 and myself that talked BATMAN into going with an ATI Procharger; there was a time when he was going to just use the Powerdyne system but seeing mine in action changed his mind. Granted, that design was radically altered in the process (which I'm not completely happy about but oh well) but the bottom line is the initial idea and design was the same.

I am also the first person to ever build a 3800 Series II F-Body engine to blower specs: dropping compression, heads, valves, blah blah blah... and the first to safely run 12 pounds all day long.

And yes, you can simply "bolt on" a blower and have it work with the stock computer.

We just "bolted on" another supercharger yesterday: www.projectvirus.com/albums/pathogenblowerinstall and this morning we re-fitted mine with a new Gatorback belt. Was running 10 pounds on the current 2.95" pulley all morning.

Check out www.projectvirus.com and http://mods.firebirdv6.com . Sure I don't "know what I'm doing". :rolleyes:

As for BATMAN's kit, as I said, it sounds very expensive but I hope it pans out. I'd think by now it is well-known that I have a few professional disagreements with some of that kit's design elements (custom intercooler, PCM programming, single-belt design) but that doesn't mean I EVER said it's a bad kit or a poor design. I just think it adds costs elements that I do not feel are necessary. Regardless of that view, I am very much looking forward to racing BATMAN and the other guys with that setup. It's a friendly rivalry that's been a year and a half in the making. ;)

[ June 01, 2003: Message edited by: Stefan ]</p>

[Tyler]

yea seriously.. since those were your first posts.. i recommend you look up who stefan is..
HE DOES KNOW A LOT ABOUT FORCED INDUCTION.

i mean.. he was batmans inspiration for cry'n out loud.

mad props to stefan for being such a pioneer. and also mad props to BATMAN and Machperformance for designing a well working kit.

**in no way am i saying stefans kit is not well working**

the price is steep.. but you know. if you are looking at performance.. the kit will definately do the job. even tho some things arent necessarily needed.. .. as stated above by stefan..

and ill be honest, if i had the money, i would definately get this kit. minus the PCM programming. but i just dont have the cash.. but im sure the price will eventually lower... ? lol who knows

[MachPerformance]

Okay, I don't post much, but I do read and I know this is your site. Let's get some things straight...

It didn't take 4 years for anyone to do this project, it just took someone with this vehicle who also wanted one done. When there is a request for a custom kit, I decide if I'm going to do it and if there is a market for it. This is a small market, but Ryan had others who were interested and willing to help with the development costs.

Ryan came to me with the P600B and said he didn't have the resources or the know how to finish the kit. He was referred to us by a friend.

I have developed power adders and engine packages for the 4.3L since '99, due to my love of my trucks. I also have a full service engine machine shop for the past 7 years and concentrate on force inducted marine offshores up to 1400HP.

We have been developing custom kits for many vehicles old and new. Due to this, Ryan was referred and liked the idea that Procharger recognizes us as a custom kit developer, backing our kits with a warranty and sending all referrals to us.

Now not to say anyone can't fit a kit on a vehicle, but making the kit safe, of a high quality, with a warranty and one that won't pull Procharger into a possible lawsuit. There are certain items Procharger looked for before they even endorsed us. We even took one of our vehicles to Kansas to be overviewed by Procharger's engineers. With their support, we have to follow some of their rules when it comes to safety and kit appearance. After all, when you own a business there is a lot of liability and overhead that comes with it. I'm not just in my garage and I must pay liability insurance. Most people can't fathom the responsibility of a business, especially when dealing with the public.

Back to the "original" idea...
The P600B is the original blower of Procharger, fine, but the idea of tapping the oilpan does not thrill me or many others. If it has to be done, so be it, but here is a product you don't have to.

Having to put on a GTP pulley requires the disassembly of the original balancer and if proper procedures are not followed when replacing the new one, one could take a chance of inducing failure of the balancer seal, now there is an oil leak.

Using an oil fed blower can introduce 4 possible points of engine oil leaks.

Our kit does not require the modification of the air conditioning system, fuse relay assembly, slimline fans, etc. Are these fans included in your modification kit?

Our kit doesn't necessitate these types of modifications. Easier for the novice, garage installer.

Fuel systems...there ARE differences in FMUs. What fuel system testing have you done to prove that the stock 3-1/2" LT-1 V8 based FMU will provide proper fueling at all RPM and load points. Have you tested this on 45 psi and 60 psi systems? We worked in conjuction with ATI Procharger's fuel lab to test a purely model specific FMU design of our own for the 3.8L S/C application only. We did not try to make do with a generic shelf FMU fit the ticket. What dyno testing have you done with datalogging to see the A/F ratio was correct?

I'm not ripping on you, but these are all things that need to be addressed before one sells to the public. Look at the criticism I take on this board, even by you to a degree, it will happen, if you do this long enough. "You take too long," "it costs too much," "you're ripping us off," "it doesn't take that long to install a kit." If I was doing a one off, sure it would have been done, but for a mass produced, publicly released kit, it takes time to gather every piece of information, so not to blow up customer's vehicles. Don't think when using a customer's car for a demo that they would be happy that their motor blew up or that he kept overheating due to intercooler placement and restriction to the engine cooling system. Even Procharger takes up to a year to release a product to the public and they have far more resources than I do. Time is not on everyone's side. Nor the cooperation of a vehicle.

Yes, the head unit is on the same side, so is Powerdyne's. Sure the intercooler goes under the front of the car, but that's where the similarity ends. You said it yourself.

Our kit can be installed and uninstalled back to stock because we didn't have to permanently modify the vehicle. This is a plus for those who may wish to sell the vehicle for whatever reason.

You say PCM tuning isn't necessary...you don't even know what we change. How do you know whether or not your motor really needs it? How long did you drive your supercharged 3.8L? Do you know the limits of everything in the computer or how it's effecting the motor, trans, longevity overall. Our stock trucks with the same transmission with our S/C kit and similar programming have years on them, thousands of miles without failure. We have references if you'd like. What about the transmission cal that is part of our cal. Proven to work on many other vehicles. Also provides quicker times at the track, more than the Hypertech.

And for the record, there are many kits Procharger includes PCM tuning with a micro tuner or they send the chip to Diablo or KC Speed for the Ford kits. They even have there own calibration sheet they send out for certain applications. Just getting the facts straight.

Questions that have been asked to me should be also answered by you and your kit...
What warranty?
What tech support?
No offense and you may be Mr. Honest, but many people have given money to "people" or "businesses" on the internet and received nothing. At any time, anyone can call Procharger and ask about us or just ask about the 3.8L kit for the Firebird/Camaro and they will be referred to us even in writing. That's backing from a company that makes over 1 million $$$$ a MONTH. Maybe more now, that was 3 years ago.

Now, this is all my explanation for everything and don't take it as a flame, but even smilies can come across wrong.

This explanation goes to all of those who had not so constructive criticism. After all I can't sell kits with used parts or poor workmanship, such as bad welds or anything subquality for that matter. That's an invitation for litigation. That's why we deliver ULTRA HIGH QUALITY. Thanks for the compliment ;)

If I were the consumer looking to buy a forced induction kit, I would spend the extra money to buy a model specific kit, not one that has to be adapted to work. That's just me.

I give you props for having the first Intercooled S/C 3.8L car.

I hope we meet at the races, I think we'll have lots of fun.


Bill