7psi numbers are in!!! WHOOHOO! I AM HAPPY! LINKS WITH PICS HAVE BEEN ADDED

[Speed]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by RedAudiomobile:



Maybe I am wrong(and correct me if I am), aren't the people paying the extra money for this kit, paying it for security? I am paying a little more for a warranty, something that wont EVER give me problems, as well as good numbers.

Even if the injectors raise the kit price, as well as pcm tunning, I will gladly pay just under 5 grand for 315 RWHP, knowing that my engine is safe, and that a lot of effort went into make sure of this.

Maybe I am wrong, but I would rather pay a little more at the beginning for something that works the best, and is done right!<hr></blockquote>


Boost for boost, a supercharger will never make the numbers a turbocharger will if for no other reason, turbos have no belt drag. In addition turbocharger have a much larger range of configurations so it is possible to build one which is more efficient that the is possible with the smaller selection of superchargers.

Tiago's kit is safer because it has greater efficiency thus cooler inlet temps, it has no lateral stress on the crank bearings, and turbo brings the power on easier than any other poweradder on the planet. There is a reason I am putting 12psi into my LT1 which has 10.4 compression and making mid 500 horsepower on an internally stock engine. That reason is turbocharger...

I'm not going to take anything away from this supercharger kit, the few pics I've seen look clean. It's one of those to each his own things..

-Bryan
KBS Turbo

[Arctc Wolf]

I was gonna say the same thing. Tiago, u have 2 remember that the parasitic loss they're getting by using the SC. I'm not suprised that ur turbo kit would put out so much more torque than the ATI kit, even w/ it not going to redline. the HP difference isn't really spectacular, if I remember correctly, maybe 10-20 rwhp, but that will go up a lot w/ rpm since HP is determined a lot by RPM after all.

Unless ur putting in something bigger than 26 lb. injectors, I wouldn't think tuning for them would be required. This is since stock PCM"s have been able to adapt to them and learn how to time fuel pulses in the past w/ the larger injectors in.

[Tiago]

not alot of difference?!?!! lets do the math here.

his programmed, well tuned, red lining car:
245 RWHP
255 RWT

Our ill tuned, stock pcm, shut down early, on a shake down pass:

280 rwhp 320 rwtq

both at 7 psi.

thats 35 rwhp and 65 rwtq

thats aLOT in my book. Expect more once the car is dialed in good.

enough of this though ,here, don't wanna steal the thread although it already kinda did,sorry. STart another post if you wanan continue this.

[Dominic]

Well I'm still impressed. The theoretical gain from 7psi of boost is only 148% original power. If you're putting 170 down stock, the theoretical best is only 251hp @ exactly 7psi.

In order to make more than that, you've gotta be pushing more boost than the gauge is telling you, or you have to start out with a higher stock horsepower #. Tiago, Radcat's car likely started around 190rwhp as is, and when you bolted on 7psi you then got 280hp. Its 100% predictable.

Both kits are excellent, I'm just overly excited about both of them :D Thank you Batman [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

This stuff is really :cool:

[slacker69]

Wow thanks alot for this post i was really stuck between a supercharger and a turbo. So Tiago wehn can we put my kit together.

[Speed]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dominic:
Well I'm still impressed. The theoretical gain from 7psi of boost is only 148% original power. If you're putting 170 down stock, the theoretical best is only 251hp @ exactly 7psi.

In order to make more than that, you've gotta be pushing more boost than the gauge is telling you, or you have to start out with a higher stock horsepower #. Tiago, Radcat's car likely started around 190rwhp as is, and when you bolted on 7psi you then got 280hp. Its 100% predictable.

Both kits are excellent, I'm just overly excited about both of them :D Thank you Batman [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

This stuff is really :cool: <hr></blockquote>


It's not as simple as trying to calculate the increased cubic feet per minute airflow increase. One thing it doesn't consider is that the supercharger would have made more wheel horsepower if it wasn't crank driving. Also, there are other factors like compressor efficiency giving you a more dense air charge, intercooler and induction ducting efficiency which can cause the compressor to work harder to move the air through the induction track thus using more available horsepower. There are also things to consider like ignition upgrades, fuel pressure, and a huge number of other things that can increase or decrease the amount of power. Think about the idea that, sinse the turbo kit is pushing much cooler air into engine that the supercharger likely is, the manifold pressure will remain the same but the air is more dense. This gives you power in two ways. First, it will increase power because there is more air to burn and second, it raises your dynamic compression ratio. The higher your dynamic compression ratio is, the more horsepower you can extract from the combustion process.

To give an example, My LT1 project car dynoed 260/298. At 7psi, it dynoed 462/473. That is a 178% increase in horsepower at 7psi. There is just so much that goes into what a given setup will produce on a given car, it's not really possible to simplify it into airflow numbers. But to give you credit, it's not an illogical way to think about it if you are looking to ball park differences a given system will make on a given engine. Assuming you have a baseline.

-Bryan
KBS Turbo

[Ju5t_B3at_Me2005]

hey i don't want to draw away from the topic tpoo much (impressive numbers put up by both sides of the FI battle!!). i have a quick question though. which system, in general, puts out more top-end power. i'm don't mean these two individual kits, just the two different systems of forcing air down the engine's throat. i always thought it was a turbo that put out more top-end, but i read somewhere that the reson most companies supercharge the honda s2000 is because they dont want to lose top-end power, but also gain torque. by the way i know there is not much info at this point, but if possible please refer to our cars and not any others when answering. hope i made myself clear . anyway thanks for the help!

[Arctc Wolf]

Tiago, I said just the Hp numbers, and i couldn't remember then exactly, I said that. I also said that the Tq was waaay above Batman's. I also said both ur HP and TQ numbers would go up once the car runs up to 6000 rpm instead of just 4000 rpm.

Also, Batman, how much vacuum was the car pulling stock, then compare that to the total amount of boost. our cars don't start at 0, they start negative. try figureing HP gain that way, across the correct larger span of area. also, what few mods had u done to the car b4 the kit was put on?

[v6maro]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tiago:
well, I don't know how any of you people are actually happy with that result, even at 7 psi. Maybe its just me but Im highly dissapointed. I expected this kit to solidly put down numbers to challange my turbo, so far you are quite a ways behind. :( <hr></blockquote>

Uhm, what % of HP to boost is more important, if your baseline is better, you will obviously get better results...
-Steve

[jmorgan]

hold up tiago and everyone else


somethings yall have failed to rember is that batman has an auto transmission compared to radcats manual


a manual always lays down better number because of less parrasteic loss

and for the simple fact that even radcat said he was boosting 7-8 psi which was it if it was 7.5 then in boost alone going by batmans numbers is 8 hp right there

and i know batman has to be losing 20 hp honestly throught the auto because look at this

ironman24 dynoed 220hp with his baby cam stock heads

slacker69 dynoed 195 with one of the biggest cams around (he has mega lift compired to most cams) and heas ported and polished heads but hes is going through the big converter but still

15 or so lost hp in the auto plus 8 or so cause of boost alone
thats 23hp

250+23= 273hp so what thats 9 hp less then radcats dyno

also radcats dyno in 3rd gear in a manual give him a gearing advatange so his tq numbers could be inflated some and also tq is was defines hp so hp could be off some too

just some stuff yall arnt thinking about

still this is a solid kit if you want a supercharger

[v6maro]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Speed:



Tiago's kit is safer because it has greater efficiency thus cooler inlet temps, it has no lateral stress on the crank bearings, and turbo brings the power on easier than any other poweradder on the planet. There is a reason I am putting 12psi into my LT1 which has 10.4 compression and making mid 500 horsepower on an internally stock engine. That reason is turbocharger...<hr></blockquote>

Uhmmm, how can you say Tiago's kit is safer without even having proof??? Also, how do you KNOW the efficiency is better on the turbo, granted, it probably is, but, you have no proof, not to mention, just because it is more efficient does not mean that the air coming in is cooler. :rolleyes:
-Steve

[v6maro]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tiago:
not alot of difference?!?!! lets do the math here.

his programmed, well tuned, red lining car:
245 RWHP
255 RWT

Our ill tuned, stock pcm, shut down early, on a shake down pass:

280 rwhp 320 rwtq

both at 7 psi.

thats 35 rwhp and 65 rwtq

thats aLOT in my book. Expect more once the car is dialed in good.

enough of this though ,here, don't wanna steal the thread although it already kinda did,sorry. STart another post if you wanan continue this.<hr></blockquote>

what was his baseline? Ryan's was really low for a 3.8L with his mods.
-Steve

[Tiago]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by v6maro:


what was his baseline? Ryan's was really low for a 3.8L with his mods.
-Steve<hr></blockquote>

his car was bone stock when we began, so Im guessing about 170 rwhp or thereabouts.

[jmorgan]

tiago try more like 180rwhp atleast

with intake only i dynoed 165 with my exhast i would probaly dyno 175


cp dynoed 193 with his manual and i have a better flowing exhast them him but he is still almost 20 hp more then me

mod for mod radcat better dyno higher atleast a good 10-20 hp more for the same mod

[imported_admin]

Interesting.

(whistles innocently)