7psi numbers are in!!! WHOOHOO! I AM HAPPY! LINKS WITH PICS HAVE BEEN ADDED

[shortdog273]

Welcome to firebirdv6.com ;)

[Magnus]

screw you and that kind of attitude shortdog.. that's not cool at all.. I take it personally when people attack this site.. What do you do to try and make it better? HUH? Do you even bother? Do you realize how much time some of us put into this site?

this is absolutely ridiculous.

First of all.. I spoke with Jason Morgan on IM.. and also read what stefan wrote here.. IMHO, Jason wasn't banned for what he did here... it was just his lack of discretion and big mouth in other threads.. It's just odd coincidence it happens after jason replies here with good compliments.

Many of you IM'd me today.. those of you who think that Jason was banned because of his support in a kit that's not stefans is ridiculous. WTF.. Are we not human? Seriousely. Like the admins are just out to get people and make users miserable.. Come on people.. they have lives too.. and do make mistakes as well.. nobodies perfect. I'm sure they just LOVE getting flamed and attacked without even a suggestive e-mail containing constructive criticism..

I think so many of you dragged this post off topic.. This is about Ryans kit.. Compare it to other kits if you will, but remember this kit still has a few kinks that need to be worked out. If you don't have anything positive to say about this kit then stay out. If you don't have anything at all to say about this kit.. then stay out. It's simple as that.

For those of you who ***** about the drama and political crap that goes on here... it's so easy to catagorize you.. its a select group of individuals, mostly immature kids who just like causing trouble.. and then go on and ***** about how horrible this board is on another. Then there's everyone else.. People who when they see a flaw, or fault, they don't go cry and ***** out that moderator/admin, instead they IM them or e-mail them.. Those people are the valued members of our board. It's so funny and pathetic to see some of the troublemakers here get banned cause of their stupidity and then go and cry in another forums lounge about how we are unfair. Grow up.

As much as some of us hate some of the "crap" that goes on here.. what can we expect.. this is a V6 community and no matter what you want to believe.. the age and maturity level of the average V6 level is rather low.. which sucks for those of us who do take pride in our cars, this site, and helping others... it sucks that we have to put up with this bull****.

IMHO.. Jason Morgan did his research and stuck up for V6'ers.. He knows a lot more about these engines and cars than most on this board.. his problem though is he doesn't use discretion in his posts and that pisses people off.. We are about helping here.. but do not tolerate crap..

I spoke with Jason Morgan and I do think if he was allowed to post here again.. he'd use more discretion.. if not I'll personally whoop is *** . ;) So.. I hope its just a temporary suspension. ;)

- Keith

[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: Magnus ]</p>

[hou-tex-six]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magnus:


If you don't have anything positive to say about this kit then stay out. If you don't have anything at all to say about this kit.. then stay out. It's simple as that.

- Keith

[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: Magnus ]<hr></blockquote>

Greeeeat nobody say anything not nice because that might cause things to get out that nobody wants to get out, thats the way progress is made, by being stagnant and complacent simply because it is nice. Now there is definately a difference between speaking your mind and just being rude (aka: TOBY). But someones opinions and point of view being squashed and eliminated by the majority is just a plain stupid policy. Its not the first time this has happened, but I think most of us have learned to accept that if you have an opinion that doeent sit well with some people you will be labeled a "trouble maker" and you have to watch what you say and word it very carefully. Such is life.

The ATI kit is a nice peice np doubt about that, i know i have had my complaints about it, and still have many issues with it, but lets keep everybody happy and not rock the boat, cause if we did that people might be able to make informed decisions as to what they want to drop $5,000 on...

Cp

[Arctc Wolf]

There is a line that was crossed by some. I didn't say I liked the ATI kit, but I didn't go bashing it constantly and being rude the whole time. I said my opinion in a decent manner and w/o attacking ppl or ideas. I gave my opinions why I didn't like the ATI kit, and why I liked Turbo kits, especially Tiago's kit he's coming out w/.

Ppl need to become more mature with their responses. No, u don't have to agree on a certain point or idea, but u don't voice it in a rude and disrespectful manner. Some ppl need to grow up and learn to be able to speak civily to each other.

I also see how temper's can flare, because this is starting to become a competition between Stefan's Kit, Mach's/Batman's, kit, and soon Tiago's kit. I play football, and I know that when ur cometitive, ppl can become angry and lash out at others.

Everything has a time and place, and the way I'd react on the football field to competition isn't the same way I handle it on here. It's a different environment and requires different ways of dealing with it. U guys have 2 know when to stop and not go too far with all this. There's no reason 2 get into fights and hate each other just because 1 kit cost's less and is quick and fairly simple to install(Stefan), 1 kit is high quality and warrantied solidly(BATMAN), and another is more efficient, cost effective, and built to the user's specifications(Tiago).

[imported_admin]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BATMAN:
OKay... well thanks man... I guess this is competition now cause up until now i've been encouraging you and saying thanks and giving you credit even after some of the stuff i've heard you say about me. I thought we were friends, but i guess business is business and friendship comes later?<hr></blockquote>

Ryan, please re-read what I said. This is a long thread and I'm trying to keep my responses short. I said I was disappointed with the numbers, wondering why (in my opinion) they seem very low because I was expecting them to really kick *** . Then I asked if there was a reason, like if you were missing some critical modification that could unlock it's power or something like that. I really thought it would produce at least 280 hp and 320+ ft-lbs at 7 psi. At no time did I say anything personal, I was just analyzing data and hoping that the next run will be suddenly a lot higher because you just discovered "oh wait, we forgot this, there we go all better now". That's happened quite a few times on my setup... (Running 14.0 @ 106 shooting the dipstick at the eighth mark and covering the headers with burning oil, smoke pouring out like a crashing Boeing 747...)

[PewterBird]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BATMAN:
By the way guys...

Here is my setup as far as mods go:

I have rksport headers,
3" Borla Catback Exhaust
3" Highflow Cat (which i think is damaged-it glowed red during the dyno)
160 Thermostat
3.42 gears (i used to have 3.08)
Zexel Torsen LSD
Taylor Wires
NGKplugs
BMR STB
BMR ADJ Upper and Lower Control Arms
BMR Boxed Subframe Connectors
BMR Panhard bar
18inch wheels and BFG Geforce tires 18/245/40


If you look, there are no mods to the engine.

If you look at the runs, notice i am hitting a limiter there (stops at 5100/5200 rpms)because of my gear ratio tuning being off.

At this rate, I am confident that my 10PSI numbers will be a lot more impressive.

[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: BATMAN ]<hr></blockquote>

As interesting as this topic has becomr, I wanna bring this back to the original topic. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Does the fact that you have 18's or had the wrong gears reported affect the power output on a dyno?
And I know how bogged down my car got with a clogged cat, it could probably be worse with FI.

I did think the numbers where relitivley low. But I do understand the kit is brand new, and still has some fine tuning before it ready. I have nothing but optimism for you Batman :D

[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: PewterBird ]</p>

[Magnus]

Yea, he'll definately pick up if he went to a 16" lighter wheel.. ALso ryan I HIGHLY recomend you go to an test-pipe setup.. ditch the cat completely.. trust me you'll pick up nice gains.

He'll also gain spinning it higher.. There's more to be had from 7psi.

[imported_admin]

As for everyone who is whining (yes, whining) about Jason Morgan being banned... since when have we needed to publicly post the complaing e-mails we receive about members who royally tick large groups of other members off? Should I have to go sifting through complaint posts where people ask him repeatedly "what's your problem, man? why do you have an attitude about everything?" and assemble twenty links for you to click on and say "aha, he's right!"? No.

I don't give a damn how much you know about engines and performance... you could be the lead engineer at GM, the designer of the 3800 Series II... if you have an attitude problem and you can't post constructively without causing a disturbance for a large number of our members, you're out. Period. You live in a society with other human beings--learn to interact with them. For those of you who say dissidence is good, there are NON-HOSTILE ways to state opposing views. You can disagree with someone professionally without being rude and calling them idiots.

Jason Morgan was due to be banned but for some reason I did forget last week. Toby made his first post by bashing me in another thread (the "price is going up" thread) a few days ago and I gave him a second chance by warning him politely. My leniency apparently had no effect: he came back and did the same damn thing to Tiago... so as I was banning him, banning Jason Morgan came to mind too. I work 50+ hours a week and have a lot of obligations off the internet (you know, the real world?). I don't log into the server control panel every day, it's not something I put on my to-do list...

Pick up new pair of slacks from mall
Order synthetic gear oil
Go to post office
Get haircut
Ban bothersome members

Um... no.

[Bliggida]

Turbochargers don't make more power pound for pound of boost compared to supercharged cars. Nor are they faster.

The supercharger doesn't face near the heat the turbocharger does. Hot intake air temps kill horsepower.

As much as people seem to think that the supercharger's belt drag costs horsepower. Its not nearly as much as some people think. When compared to turbochargers of the same boost level the dyno figures are almost identical, and that is including the drag a supercharger has that a turbo doesn't - largely due to horsepower you are robbed from using a turbocharger and the heat they cause.

On the dragstrip, all things identical a supercharged car will pull ahead first and contintue to stay there, since they make boost off-idle - no lag, and continue to pull through redline.

Ultimately, when you go all out, Superchargers make more power. Show me a turbocharged car that makes more than 2,500 horsepower. Where as supercharged cars are upwards of 6,000 horsepower.

If Turbochargers made more power and they were faster, professionals would use them...they don't.

You can't look at the superharger and turbocharger and simply say that the turbocharger makes (more power) boost without the belt so there is no drag. You aren't taking into account the fact that air intake temperatures are ungodly on a turbocharger. Heat rises in superchargers too, but they are nothing in the face of a turbocharged cars intake temps.

[Deuce Bigs]

turbos are outlawed in most professional races

[MachPerformance]

This has been a very disappointing topic to read. With the responses from some on here, those who are not members but only read would think that the maturity level in here was quite low. Some are quick to post before thorough thought is put forth, that is well shown several times. Also from a business standpoint of the other kit builders, the use vulgarity in a post to reply to a nonconstructive post does not show true professionalism. As much as you would like to tell someone what you feel, sometimes tact and professional tones when posting will always get you farther. I myself have taken a lot a derogatory posts from many members of this board and have never once came here and expressed myself in a nonprofessional way. What everyone posting on a bulletin board or in a chat room has to realize is that the person reading can take it what ever way he/she wants. There is no emotion in words, only what the interpreter perceives. I myself perceived negativity towards myself and my work in many who are now defending themselves. (After all, Ryan's kit was entirely built by myself with my own hands. Not some huge company with 100 employees.) Maybe my perception is inaccurate with what they meant, but it's not always what you say, but how you say it, or word it.

Yes, we did take a long time to do this kit, but we have restraints others do not. First, we have the endorsements of ATI Procharger and have to follow their guidelines, other do not. Also our kit set out to do what we wanted it to do and provided a minimum 50% gain in both the HP & TQ ratings safely and dependable for daily use, we achieved that. Also the quality standard that we follow is our policy as well as ATI's. Our owners manual/instructions have to be approved by ATI, they have certain install criteria to meet. Also we have to source materials and quantity based on kit contents. Furthermore we build CNC programs of all brackets and components we build, to have perfect duplication of the proto-type, ill fitment of components will cause frustration in the consumer. We build everything in house except the blower head unit, FMU(we contract ATI to that for us) and fuel pump. Other issues that came into play with this project were Ryan's personal life. This is his daily driver and he needs to go to work. If he needed it or we were waiting on parts, he would take it and I can't stop working in my shop. I must do other customer's projects as well. It's a juggling act, ask Ryan. I have an over abundance of work and forced induction development and have a hard time cloning myself. I also can't say "no." Another issue is my personal life, which I shouldn't have to explain, seeing as I normally work til 2am, (look at what time I post). My grandfather was very ill and he is 88 yrs. old and in need of daily care, including hospital runs. We all know how emergency rooms are. Let's just say that time is not on your side when you're in the emergency room. Sometimes I think when you own a business, people think you're not human. Anyway, that's my personal life to start, the rest is "personal." Hopefully we can end this thread with professionalism and tact. I will start a new thread on the apples vs oranges theories. Also the exact specifics to the dyno and what we examined during the 20 run battery of the Batmobile.

Bill

[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: MachPerformance ]</p>

[Tyler]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MachPerformance:
This has been a very disappointing topic to read. With the responses from some on here, those who are not members but only read would think that the maturity level in here was quite low. Some are quick to post before thorough thought is put forth, that is well shown several times. Also from a business standpoint of the other kit builders, the use vulgarity in a post to reply to a nonconstructive post does not show true professionalism. As much as you would like to tell someone what you feel, sometimes tact and professional tones when posting will always get you farther. I myself have taken a lot a derogatory posts from many members of this board and have never once came here and expressed myself in a nonprofessional way. What everyone posting on a bulletin board or in a chat room has to realize is that the person reading can take it what ever way he/she wants. There is no emotion in words, only what the interpreter perceives. I myself perceived negativity towards myself and my work in many who are now defending themselves. (After all, Ryan's kit was entirely built by myself with my own hands. Not some huge company with 100 employees.) Maybe my perception is inaccurate with what they meant, but it's not always what you say, but how you say it, or word it.

Yes, we did take a long time to do this kit, but we have restraints others do not. First, we have the endorsements of ATI Procharger and have to follow their guidelines, other do not. Also our kit set out to do what we wanted it to do and provided a minimum 50% gain in both the HP & TQ ratings safely and dependable for daily use, we achieved that. Also the quality standard that we follow is our policy as well as ATI's. Our owners manual/instructions have to be approved by ATI, they have certain install criteria to meet. Also we have to source materials and quantity based on kit contents. Furthermore we build CNC programs of all brackets and components we build, to have perfect duplication of the proto-type, ill fitment of components will cause frustration in the consumer. We build everything in house except the blower head unit, FMU(we contract ATI to that for us) and fuel pump. Other issues that came into play with this project were Ryan's personal life. This is his daily driver and he needs to go to work. If he needed it or we were waiting on parts, he would take it and I can't stop working in my shop. I must do other customer's projects as well. It's a juggling act, ask Ryan. I have an over abundance of work and forced induction development and have a hard time cloning myself. I also can't say "no." Another issue is my personal life, which I shouldn't have to explain, seeing as I normally work til 2am, (look at what time I post). My grandfather was very ill and he is 88 yrs. old and in need of daily care, including hospital runs. We all know how emergency rooms are. Let's just say that time is not on your side when you're in the emergency room. Sometimes I think when you own a business, people think you're not human. Anyway, that's my personal life to start, the rest is "personal." Hopefully we can end this thread with professionalism and tact. I will start a new thread on the apples vs oranges theories. Also the exact specifics to the dyno and what we examined during the 20 run battery of the Batmobile.

Bill

[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: MachPerformance ]<hr></blockquote>

IM WITH HIM!! [img]smile.gif[/img]


also, i dont kno too much about dyno's and what not.. and torque curves. but from what i hear, a flat one is a good one (correct me if im wrong)

and look at batmans dyno sheets.. THEM BE SOME FLAT TORQUE CURVES!!!!!

from the looks of that dyno, i'd say its gotta be a sold kit!

[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: Tyler ]</p>

[imported_admin]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MachPerformance:
the use vulgarity in a post to reply to a nonconstructive post does not show true professionalism. As much as you would like to tell someone what you feel, sometimes tact and professional tones when posting will always get you farther.<hr></blockquote>

Bill, I'm assuming you're talking about Tiago and myself since we're also "kit builders". Remember: we're not professionals! [img]smile.gif[/img] And it is the personal reason that you stated right here that made me keep my mouth shut in the other post where you had a long reply that I was itching to debate about piece by piece.

The one thing I would like to point out quickly is when you said "it didn't take four years, it took someone with drive and determination". That's not entirely true. I have dealt with three separate performance shops over the years that were going to market my setup and all three of them took advantage of me in some way and ended up with empty hands and great techno-babble excuses on why it was impossible. (Then in our garage Jenn, myself, and a few friends do it in 3 days.) I've also seen several members buy superchargers or turbos, spend a few months designing a kit, and then give up saying it's too difficult. I know I'm cynical as a result from seeing all this and I apologize for that not being your fault but I'm starting to think one of the reasons I'm still expecting Ryan's setup to do more is because I want it to.

My ultimate goal has always been to help benefit the V6 community as a whole... and competition breeds quality. Four years ago people laughed when I said I was going to supercharge a lowly V6. (Then I pulled it off in a few weeks and critics suddenly quieted down.) The fact that kit makers are now competing in a sense is a testament to how far the community has come. Have no doubt, if quality is what you're targeting, that's where you'll win. Tiago's turbos and our adapter kits are hardly show-worthy material and they would look extremely out of place on someone like Ryan's car. But also remember that almost all V6 owners are on a budget, and those that have the cash to do what we're pushing for doing tend to just trade in for a V8. It's a competitive market, don't worry about what cynics say, just blow them out of the water with astonishing dyno numbers and killer track times. That's what sells. And heck, if people can afford it, go for it! It was never our intention to take away sales from anyone else, and quite honestly, I don't see that as even remotely being a threat. Given the choice and the funding, I think any sane person would rather buy your kit. We started our kit idea when the rumors were flying that Ryan's car was going to be the only car to have the kit and the others were to be discontinued. So we went with it and now here we are...

[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: Stefan ]</p>

[shortdog273]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magnus:
screw you and that kind of attitude shortdog.. that's not cool at all.. I take it personally when people attack this site.. What do you do to try and make it better? HUH? Do you even bother?<hr></blockquote>
[img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] Who's attacking what? Hey, don't get on my head because of ANOTHER thread that got out of control over some BS. That's a normal thing here and I find it hilarious. If you're taking this personal, then you got issues. As far as me trying to make this site better, here's one of my suggestions right here: http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ulti...&f=11&t=000516 After 2+ months, it's still not added! WHY? Also, i've supplied part numbers and such for alot of members here for awhile , so don't come to me with that BS anymore. Do I make myself clear?? :rolleyes:

[Tyler]

is it me? or is everyone on this board just trying to pick fights lately??

ppl need to relax..and smoke a doooobie :D