7psi numbers are in!!! WHOOHOO! I AM HAPPY! LINKS WITH PICS HAVE BEEN ADDED

[malloynx#2]

2 thumbs up for the E-RAM.. now there's some forced induction [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

[black34v6]

tell that to mike moran running his quad turbo big block. he uses turbos on his car.

as for the hot intake temps, well..thats what intercoolers are for. generally i see intercoolers in turbocharged setups, i have RARELY seen a supercharger kit out with a intercooler as part of the equip.

so thats that to the "turbos run hotter so they suck". turbos are more efficient because they dont have the belt to drag on, the motor doesnt need to waste HP trying to make the impeller turn with a belt.. as for turbo lag, if you match the turbo correctly you can eliminate that problem.

[Deuce Bigs]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HAZ-Matt:


Sure you do because to get the 7psi with the supercharger you have to take into account the power loss from the belt. If you can make some kind of magical supercharger that drives itself and is independent of engine rpm then you could compete with (and overtake) a turbo. Although this new magical supercharger might be more like a turbo... Hmmm it would probbaly be so great that they'd have to give it a new name like hypersupercharger, which would then be shortened to hypercharger or hyper (and that would be an interesting parallel of turbosupercharger evolution from belt driven superchargers).

Looks like I also need to repost this yet again:

Turbo vs Supercharger

EDIT: with all the turbo vs supercharger nonsense I forgot to say that it's great that we finally have a good intercooled supercharger option. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: HAZ-Matt ]<hr></blockquote>

hahaha alrighty then. reread my post.

[AMinor65]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by malloynx#2:
2 thumbs up for the E-RAM.. now there's some forced induction [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

[img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] YEAH!!! [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

Congrats to Batman and Tiago. I'll be following both kits more closely!

Keep it up, guys! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[mattsv6]

now i have never talked crap too anyone in this thread, and if you look one of the other threads about batman, i told him good luck and give it hell. i think that is a sense of comeradary between companies dont you? we could all post a ton of facts that have been proven in theory and in real life, but it wouldnt be good enough for some people that jsut want to argue the point of superchargers are better.
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> Well I am a professional kit builder. I don't use vulgarity and I do try to help people but I also try to correct missinformation when I see it. Firstly, I can't agree more with Mach's assessment of owning your own business. People really believe you are super-human. <hr></blockquote>

i am in the same boat as bill and speed, and i too feel the pressure to get projects done on time! i am a professional engine builder, head porter, and partners with tiago with his company.i also no what it is like to work 16 hours a day for weeks at a time. i dont have a single day off either. i will tell you that i really get annoyed when people talk bad about a conceptual design that took many hard hours of labor and mental designing. its a concept!!!! it doesnt have to look pretty or have goofy colors and coatings too put down good numbers. as long as it works and proves the point, i am happy with it.

i am proud of our kits and would always speak highly of them. plus, i would never bash anyone else kits, that is jsut bad business! but noone from force fed fabrications was saying anything more then constructive criticism to bill or batman. jsut keep it in mind that we have to defend our product!

[hou-tex-six]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Deuce Bigs:



how is this a no? an engine doesn't know the difference of where the 7 psi is coming from. when i mean theoretically i mean doesn't take into account belt drag or heat or anything else. it's just 7psi. you don't have seperate "turbo psi" and "super psi" you just measure what psi is going into the engine.<hr></blockquote>


So what your saying is if 7psi magically appears in the intake they will make the same amount of power?? Well yes in theory, but what have you proven? Absolutely nothing. The reason you differentiate between "turbo psi" and "super psi", as you put it, is because there is a different means to the end of making that 7 psi get there, that being the basis of the discussion. Sorry no magic boost.


And I still fail to understand the big hoopla being made about people getting "bashed" on here, and complaints about immaturity. Comparing and contrasting is not bashing, its shopping around. I seriously doubt Tiago or Stefan or anybody would be pissed if the ATI kit made 400 RWHP, in fact I think they would be the first to congratulate him. Seems like most of whats going on is simple education. Im sure this came up a long time ago, but why doesent soemne start a new thread somewhere along the lines of "Prototype Turbo and ATI Dyno Comparison". Then we could continue this discussion without offending anyone.

Cp

[Tyler]

this is getting old

[P-nut-]

agreed.

[hawgs]

then both of yall stop reading it. no one forced you to.

[LordoftheBling]

i agree with hawgs. no one asked your opinion or asked you to post in this thread.

[Deuce Bigs]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hou-tex-six:



So what your saying is if 7psi magically appears in the intake they will make the same amount of power?? Well yes in theory, but what have you proven? Absolutely nothing. The reason you differentiate between "turbo psi" and "super psi", as you put it, is because there is a different means to the end of making that 7 psi get there, that being the basis of the discussion. Sorry no magic boost.

Cp<hr></blockquote>


i don't even know what post my original response was too but that was what i was trying to get across that boost is boost whereever it comes from. you're going to get to the same destination whether you go left or right it's just how you get there.

[Speed]

7psi of boost on one system may not be equal to 7psi on the other system. You can never just forget about all the mitigating factors but if you hypothetically used the same compressor, with the same cooling medium, driven by the same power source, on the same engine, then yes 7psi is 7psi when the atmosphere is exactly the same. Unfortunately, that would be like dynoing a single pull, making a copy of the sheet and then compairing the two. It just isn't pratical to try to compair two kits using this logic.

[black34v6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Deuce Bigs:



i don't even know what post my original response was too but that was what i was trying to get across that boost is boost whereever it comes from. you're going to get to the same destination whether you go left or right it's just how you get there.<hr></blockquote>

k ill join in on this one. im not big on supercharger/turbocharger dynamics..but heres the deal. you arent going to get the same destination in terms of super/turbo because of all the factors of each. i agree with eveyrone thats saying that you dont get it.

lemme make it a little easier, say i have 20.00. and you have 20.00

we each made that 20.00 working for a day. i made my 20.00 but i dont get any taken back because all of my work was hand done. you on the other hand had to buy materials, so out of that 20.00 you really only made 15.00, because 5.00 of it was spent on those materials..so we both got 20.00 in the end, but it cost you 5.00 to get there...

same thing...motor a gets 7 psi from a supercharger, motor b gets 7 psi from a turbo.

motor a loses hp trying to get that 7 psi from the belt it has to turn to get the supercharger running to make that 7psi... say it costs you 1 psi in HP. (i dunno..something like that) - you theoretically only have 6psi now, instead of 7..

meanwhile, motor a has lost nothing, because it doesnt take any HP to drive the turbocharger.. (no belts)..

thats what everyone is saying..that you are losing something in it. 7psi on a SC is not the same as 7psi on a turbo. and if you keep protesting that it is - then you need to reread articles on both supercharging and turbocharging, and i would suggest not undergoing any modifications of either sort until you understand how it works, cause you might destroy your motor in the process.

[mattsv6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> i don't even know what post my original response was too but that was what i was trying to get across that boost is boost whereever it comes from. you're going to get to the same destination whether you go left or right it's just how you get there.
<hr></blockquote>
there is a difference in boost if you compare it liek this.

take a tiny T3 turbo and run it at 1bar (14.7psi)
take a huge T108 and run it at 1bar also

how is the boost the same? you jsut need to look into thermal efficiencies and stuff like that. there is sooo much you need to learn about turbo's and blowers and all the forced induction. keep in mind that "boost" is jsut a term that corresponds to frictional velocity!

[TealV6]

Every last one of you disappoint me.....

I spent way too much time reading all of this non-sense to see that you all have no clue on what respect and opinions are.

When will you all grow up????

When the board is closed down and you have no precious V6.com????

Sad.... very sad.

Steve