adapting a powerdyne to a 98+

[grayman]

Also read up on my pages concerning modifying the fuel delivery system. (adding fuel pressure gauges and using the gm quick disconnect tool, etc.) don't mess around with the fuel system. you parts and technique are exponentialy more important when you are working on a high pressure fuel injection system as opposed to a much lower pressure carbuetor fuel system.

Vipers AN fittings for the schraeder valve pressure sender are a sticky at the top of this forum and i also list them on my site. That is perhaps the easiest and no matter what it will cost you a few $$$ in order to install the F/P sender no matter how you do it.

[grayman]

The cam swap in the TA went fine by the way. :D

just thought i'd share that.

[dmw319]

Originally posted by grayman:


1.Get a 0-100 psi ELECTRONIC fuel pressure gauge along with it's appropriate fuel pressure sender. I use norskog and it is perfect. I recomendto stay away from autometer fuel gauges.

2.you can install the FMU ahead of time as well as the gauges. You need to prep the car for the John_d power wrap. this is not an option. there is no way out of it but to spend some grunt time filing away the oil filter mounting elbow in order to fit the improved belt route.

3.EBAY is your silicone coupler shopping mart. go to the turbo and turbo parts section of ebay and do a search for silicone and silioone elbow and silicone coupler. you want 'reinforced high temperature' silicone hose couplers/elbows, etc. with a 3" high temp silicone coupler and two silicone hose t bolt clamps.

4.get a 3/8 threaded plug and it's corresponding tap as well.

ok questions.

1. i already bought an electronice 0-100 fuel pressure gauge sportcomp from autometer, so too late for that.. but anyways, you said i need a gauge "along with it's appropriate fuel pressure sender." when i bought the gauge it said it comes with "1/8" NPT sender and 8' harnes" . is that what you mean? if not, where can i buy a good sender?

2. do i need to install an FMU? i heard for 6psi sometimes you wont need it. i have the timing retard too, but im pretty sure i wont need that.. anyways.. you said "filing away the oil filter mounting elbow". is this hard to do? will i see what youre talking about once i test-fit the s/c in there? what kind of file? and is it ok to use my k/n oil filter still?

3. like THIS ?? how many couplers/adapters/ft. of hosing do i need? i cant find any good hosing.. throw some ebay links at me if it will help you to describe it, or make a drawing of the piping in paint. thatd really help [img]smile.gif[/img] haha

4. like at any hardware store? i dont know what these are.. haha


the guy who sold it to me told me its not missing any parts and it includes the sender, and the 3rd bracket *just called him*

[ February 08, 2006, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: dmw319 ]

[dmw319]

Originally posted by grayman:

Vipers AN fittings for the schraeder valve pressure sender are a sticky at the top of this forum and i also list them on my site. That is perhaps the easiest and no matter what it will cost you a few $$$ in order to install the F/P sender no matter how you do it.

will i need to buy these?
EAR-923104 -4 FEMALE TO 1/8 NPT SWIVEL $22.69
EAR-991001 1/8 NPT COUPLING $2.95
(listed in vipers post)

im not sure about this part.. with the one way check valve and all that. could you elaborate a little.

i really just need to know EVERYTHING i need to buy from this point out. do i need the ribbed pulley from ASPracing.com? the guy im buying it from said that he reccomends it. also, will i need a BOV? im pretty sure i dont at 6psi, just making sure though.

here is a complete list of what i already have bought:
-supercharger (no parts missing)
-ngk tr6 plugs
-zzp performance valve breather
-2 pod pillar
-electronic fuel gauge (autometer sport comp)
-boost gauge (autometer sport comp)


dont be gone too long, i need your help [img]smile.gif[/img] haha thanks

[ February 08, 2006, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: dmw319 ]

[grayman]

"1. i already bought an electronice 0-100 fuel pressure gauge sportcomp from autometer, so too late for that.. but anyways, you said i need a gauge "along with it's appropriate fuel pressure sender." when i bought the gauge it said it comes with "1/8" NPT sender and 8' harnes" . is that what you mean? if not, where can i buy a good sender?"

from gray: it sounds like you got both the sender and the gauge so you are good. You will also need appriate gauge wires and basic auto wireing crimp tool, kit. There is a page on my site for some basic auto wireing but i highly recommend you follow the link from my site to brent frankers awesome auto wireing web pages.

"2. do i need to install an FMU? i heard for 6psi sometimes you wont need it."

from gray: YES! install the FMU. you will understand it's importance when you start reading up on basic forced induction.

"i have the timing retard too, but im pretty sure i wont need that.."
from gray: Correct. Always fill up with premium fuel from now on. The 92 octane fuel combined with the colder TR6 plugs will negate the need for the timing retard. as i mentioned earlier...for 6psi "I" would only worry about retarding the timing if i were in a very hot desert environment. There are plenty of posts and threads about the powerdyne and the timing retart module.

"you said "filing away the oil filter mounting elbow". is this hard to do? will i see what youre talking about once i test-fit the s/c in there? what kind of file? and is it ok to use my k/n oil filter still?"

from gray: http://www.camarov6.com/ubb/ultimate...c;f=4;t=002431

http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c;f=4;t=002515

http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c;f=4;t=002430

http://www.camarov6.com/ubb/ultimate...c;f=4;t=002240

http://home.comcast.net/~grayman99/guide.htm

http://www.superchargeronline.com/content.asp?id=27

http://www.superchargeronline.com/

After you have read all that:

http://home.comcast.net/~grayman99/P...-CheckList.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~grayman99/TB-PCV.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~grayman99/JohnD.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~grayman99/V...onnections.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~grayman99/GaugeInstalls.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~grayman99/P...rge-tubing.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~grayman99/fusepanel.htm



as for what type of silicone coupler:
something like this....you want a section of 3" diameter reinforced silicone hose or coupler. Not a reducer. your kit comes with some reducers and couplers already but you will need to modify the metal rksport 3" discharge tube in order to mount up with the 2000+ straight throttle body cars. You will need to cut the rksport 3" pipe in half...somewhere after it makes its first 90 degree bend up towards the throttle body and then attach those two sections together with the 3" diameter silicone hose coupler. This way you can 'turn' and twist the discharge tube in order to make it all fit. I am suggesting the use of a 'hump hose' coupler as that will allow for more 'play' in the connection while not having the connection 'collapse' (reducing the inner diameter).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3-00-...0131QQtcZphoto

As you already know from reading up on my website and how i rigged the discharge piping i did not use nor modify the rksport 94-97 discharge tube. It can be done though. I have some examples on my site how other people have adapted there older discharge tube to the newer TB.

I have handy dandy pics and guides on my site as well for all the questions you have been asking.


The mods in my checklist are not suggested...they are required.

download the rksport instructions from my site as well as the mcaanda instructions and also my mcaanda addendum. My checklist will become more apparent after you have read those documents.

BE VERY CAREFUL why prefitting the discharge tube to the Throttle Body. I suggest carefuly (read up on it) removing the MAF screen first and then put the MAF screen back after final fitment of the discharge tubing. If you leave the MAF screen on the TB while trying to get everything sized up, etc...it will get crushed.

Be prepared to also clearance the back of the airbox and some of the fan shroud...but not the fan blades.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by dmw319:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by grayman:

Vipers AN fittings for the schraeder valve pressure sender are a sticky at the top of this forum and i also list them on my site. That is perhaps the easiest and no matter what it will cost you a few $$$ in order to install the F/P sender no matter how you do it.

will i need to buy these?
EAR-923104 -4 FEMALE TO 1/8 NPT SWIVEL $22.69
EAR-991001 1/8 NPT COUPLING $2.95
(listed in vipers post)

im not sure about this part.. with the one way check valve and all that. could you elaborate a little.

i really just need to know EVERYTHING i need to buy from this point out. do i need the ribbed pulley from ASPracing.com? the guy im buying it from said that he reccomends it. also, will i need a BOV? im pretty sure i dont at 6psi, just making sure though.

here is a complete list of what i already have bought:
-supercharger (no parts missing)
-ngk tr6 plugs
-zzp performance valve breather
-2 pod pillar
-electronic fuel gauge (autometer sport comp)
-boost gauge (autometer sport comp)


dont be gone too long, i need your help [img]smile.gif[/img] haha thanks </font>[/QUOTE]i know i also wonder why the little piece is $22, but they are rated for fuel and and high PSI

[dmw319]

haha ive read all those links, but thanks for them anyways. let me write this all out.. starting from the intake, going to the throttle body, and tell me if im missing anything:

-k/n fipk (oval output)
-CLAMP
-stock accordian coupler (oval to round) *still need this piece*
-CLAMP
-3" silicone hump coupler * THIS, same as the link you gave me *
-CLAMP
-2 ft of 3" intake tubing *powerdyne.com*
-CLAMP
-the piece of the rksport kit
-CLAMP
-supercharger
-CLAMP
-3" - 2.5" reducer *will THIS work? *
-CLAMP
-8" piece of 2.5" thick intercooler pipe * will THIS work? *
-CLAMP
-14" long 2.5" orange tubing *McMaster, need to buy*
-CLAMP
-4" piece of 2.5" thick intercooler pipe *ill use some of the other pipe listed above*
-CLAMP
-2.5" - 3.5" reducer 90 degree elbow *will THIS work?*
-CLAMP
-throttle body


questions:

1.how does the IAT sensor fit into that tube? do i have to make a bung hole for it? like drill it?
2. aspracing.com sells the 3.12 6 psi pulley, but i cant find it on their website. should i just call em? also, i wont need a new belt, right?

[ February 09, 2006, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: dmw319 ]

[grayman]

"1.how does the IAT sensor fit into that tube? do i have to make a bung hole for it? like drill it?
2. aspracing.com sells the 3.12 6 psi pulley, but i cant find it on their website. should i just call em? also, i wont need a new belt, right?


1: yep, the iat sensor can be tricky. the kit should come with a grommet that plugs into a hole in the rksport discharge tube and then you just plug you sensor into that. OR...you can use the iat sensor grommet that is in your stock airlid. (i used the grommet from a used ls1 intake lid) OR you can find a grommet at a good parts store in the MISCELLANEUS bins. whatever you do you will know if it is working becuase after you gun the car and inspect the engine bay it will still be in place.

yes, you need to call asp racing and explain to them that you have an inversly mounted powerdyne on your 3.8 liter v6 firebird and tha you want a grooved (cross cut) pulley. they will know what you are talking about. (they also tried 'spiral' type grooves but those seem to shred the belt prematurely.

I am still using the original belt that came with the rksport kit along with my 3.12 pulley and the john D wrap. There is a chance that with the john d wrap the rksport 105" belt will be too long but you will know it becuase your rksport tensioner will 'bottom out'. I have been fine.

As for all the parts you just listed...you will get many hose clamps and a few couplers so you might want to get the kit delivered and lay it out. see what you have and that will help you figure out what is next.

The main reason i went with 2.5 inch piping on the discharge side is becuase i could not find a 3.5" to 3" reducing elbow. If i ever do i will most likely order up some 3 inch pieces of tubing and couplers, etc and redo the discharge tube. You could save a bunch of money if you wanted to make a cut in the rksport discharge tube and use the hump hose coupler to re orient the discharge tubing. Also, a dude on ebay was selling his left over 3 feet of that reinforced silicone lined (orange) idustrial flex hose for just a few bucks. ...the Mcmaster stuff.

Now...i have never had a 3 inch discharge tube on this car so i can't compare but the 2.5" rig i am running seems to work real good. there are plenty of brown spots on my passenger seat (and one on mine...DOH!) to proove it. :D

After all...the discarge port on the powerdyne (inner diameter) is about 2.5" so perhaps the smaller 2.5 inch piping maintains a certain velocity and pressure (but maybe the air retains a little more heat becuase it is not allowed to expand like it would if the air was traveling through fatter 3" piping on its way to the TB) where maybe a 3" setup allows for lower pressure in the discharge tubing but an overall 'longer' or larger area to fill up before reaching the TB. I don't know....but the car does move real good.

I am not sure which intake is the k and n fipk. send me a link to it and i will check it out to see if i have any input on incorperating it. however...my stock (smoothed inside) airbox works real good as a feeder for the SC intake.

Oh, one other benifit of the 2.5 inch piping and the 3.5 to 2.5 inch elbow is that it leaves good clearance for the intake hose and the stock airbox.

[grayman]

oh yea...i have seen long sections of straight (12" or so) reinforced silicone hose on ebay. check the sellers of silicon products 'ebay stores.' You can also buy silicone elbows and stuff. I mention this because there might be a minimum length required for the mcmasters coiled tubing and that might get expensive.

even if you cut your stock rksport discharge tube your kit will still have a strong resale value.

[dmw319]

i think i want to save some money, so i might just cut up the rksport kit. if i do that then all i need is the 2.5" mcmaster tubing for the discharge right? or would it be 3"? along with 2 couplers? or would i need couplers? what size? sorry i have so many questions.

also, i found a 3.5"-3" reducer elbow.. if i wanted to use it, THEN what would i need?

[1DangerousV6]

all you need is a length of 3" tubing with hose clamps

[dmw319]

i went ahead and bought 2 ft. of mcmaster 3" flexible silicon hose and i ordered my pulley from asp today, they said 1.5 weeks maybe as much as 2.5-3 at most since they gotta make it.

i just called powerdyne.com and they said they dont carry 3" intake flex hose, only 3.5".
????

[ February 09, 2006, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: dmw319 ]

[grayman]

Originally posted by dmw319:
i think i want to save some money, so i might just cut up the rksport kit. if i do that then all i need is the 2.5" mcmaster tubing for the discharge right? or would it be 3"? along with 2 couplers? or would i need couplers? what size? sorry i have so many questions.

also, i found a 3.5"-3" reducer elbow.. if i wanted to use it, THEN what would i need?

Yea, I came across the 3.5 to 3" reducing elbow as well. $21, ebay. It is the same manufacture as my 3.5 to 2.5 elbow. I plan on ordering one tonight.

But, back to your rig. If you are going to cut your rksport discharge tube then don't worry about all the flexible mcmasters hose and stuff. With a well placed cut you may only need one additional coupler. The 3x3" hump hose coupler for example. Maybe wait until you have the rksport kit in hand to do a mock up on the car. You may want to forego the hump hose coupler because it is only 3" long. This only gives a limited amount of 'flexibility' in the joint where you place the coupler. It might require a longer section of silicone hose in order to make the bend required even after you cut the rksport discharge tube becuase not only is the angled throttle body (pre 1999 model years) at an anble (rather that straight...like the TB on your car) the angled TB is also not the same length. In other words you not only need to adapt the discharge tube to connect to your TB at the correct angle but our straight TB is closer to the radiator than the angled TB cars.

Take a look at the last four pictures on this page.
http://home.comcast.net/~grayman99/P...rge-tubing.htm

This is my custom discharge rig. It contains non of the rksport discharge tubing. the first of the last four pics shows the orange tubing. It is easy to see because it is still orange. In the following pics i re routed the tubing a little differently (shorter over all) and i also covered the ugly orange flex hose with with black radiator tape. (cosmetics)

notice where the blower is mounted in the first of those last pics. now look at the TB. Now look at the orage flex hose. See the 'zig-zag' in the flex hose? if you want the terminus to be plumb and straight up and down then you can not have just a 'zig' without a zag.

This is why you might need a plain 12" section of silicon hose (3" ID).

You rksport kit will come with couplers to connect the discarge tube to A. The blower and B. the throttle body.

The distance from the blower exit port to the front of the TB on both types of TB is the same if measured horizontaly. Perhaps the best place to cut the RKsport tube will be in the section where it runs 'horizontaly' (somewhere between the blower end and where the pipe turns up towards the TB because this is where you need to create a zig zag with a section of flexible silicon tubing or coupler.

I don't think you will need a ridgid inner coil couple like i am using in the form of the mcmasters tubing because on my rig i am using the mcmsters tubing to create a 'zig=zag bend AS WELL AS a 90 degree bend up to the TB. You already have a 90 degree bend in your RK spsrt tubing as well as a second 90 degree bend with a flange At the TB.

ok, check out those pics and let me know what you think.

most of all wait until you can do a mock up with the kit before you order your couplers and stuff.

[grayman]

I still don't know what kind of an air intake system you have on the car. it is important because as you can see in my pics on the page i just posted it gets real cramped up between the TB and radiator/airbox area. If your FIPK sticks out closer to the TB than the stock airbox then you might be better off going back to the stock airlid/airbox.

having the blower intake rigged upto to our air box is preferable to the cone filter supplied in the RKsport kit. the cone filter ends up pretty low to the ground (water) and breaths more engine compartment air rather than fresher air like in our modified stock air box.

[grayman]

I think powerdyne has 3.5 and 4" intake flex hose. get the 3.5" you will see.

The intake port on the powerdyne has an outside diameter of 3.5"

Outside diameter of black 3" PVC pipe is also about 3.5". The 3.5" powerdyne hose will connect to those perfectly.

1Dangerous is correct. He is probably chuckling at how many posts we are making on this particular aspect of your install. YOu will be fine with the section of 3" bronzed coiled mcmasters tubing. It will be enough to create whatever kind of bends you will require and the inner coil will keep the bends from collapsing. The bronze coil is very hard to cut.

With the mcmasters tubing all you will need now is two 3" hose clamps. just normal radiator style hose clamps is all you need. the mcmasters tubing is real strong stuff.

I should update my webpage concering the powerdyne 3.5" flex hose. I keep calling it 3" by mistake.