Batman & Mach...Preparing for S/C

[Arctc Wolf]

no, actually ATI is looking at letting Mach sell the kits to everyone a month after the Beta testers get their kits in their cars.

[1smurfman]

SO what do you guys think...the 10lb kit will be safe to use with exhaust/ignition mods/ a few suspension mods/ and (tunning),on an otherwise stock car??


I am getting Pacesetter Headers, exhaust, subframes, ignition (plugs/wires)...in preparation for 10lbs...sound good? Or is 7lb the way to go to play it safe.

[ June 10, 2003: Message edited by: 1smurfman ]

[ June 10, 2003: Message edited by: 1smurfman ]</p>

[MrCoffee]

The only thing I would suggest would be higher flow exhaust. Stefan had trouble with his oil dipstick shooting out under high boost because of too much back pressure. Other than that everything else is only added for peace of mind. I dont even think exhaust is a problem with this kit, but I guess we wont know until a beta tester reports something.

[black34v6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Arctc Wolf:
I will repeat, the MSD-DIS-4 is not for tuning, it is to make sure all of the air/fuel mixture is burned by increasing spark energy and using "multiple spark discharge" to make sure all of the mixture is burned, hence the name MSD.

tuning can't take the place of a powerful ignition, and a powerful ignition can't take the plcae of tuning, period.<hr></blockquote>


im gonna agree with Arctic Wolf -- 60% because he is right, and 40% cause v6maro is a ****head and doesnt know what hes doing.

anyway -- for the agreement with Arctic Wolf.. I put the 19# injectors in my car, and ran on a wideband dyno, and you could SMELL the gas from the exhaust (i have no cat btw) -- anyway. found out at idle i was running 11.89:1 A/F Ratio.

after hooking up my (waste of time?) 300+ MSD DIS-4, and making sure it was configured right, the smell of gas went away completely. which in common sense would mean that now all of the fuel being pumped into the cylinders is being burned (cause there is no more smell of gasoline from the engine while its at idle.) in fact id venture to say my car is running better than it did (idle quality) even when i first bought it.

dont let v6maro tell you that its a waste of time just cause he doesnt know how to use it. its a useful tool and it helps in getting better fuel economy and maximizing efficiency.

the MSD is worth the money. its just tricky to install. make sure you visit tiago's site for a copy of the wiring diagram.

-R

[MustangEater8251]

honeslty I think ignigniton woudl be very neccesary for a super/trubo application

the stock is powerful, and I think can take most N/A applications but with boost or juice, I think you need aftermarket

[Arctc Wolf]

yea, weird how it wasn't crankcase pressure or something complicated made the dipstick blow. he had a really restrictive stock y-pipe that came down to 2" diameter at 1 point. makes ya wanna run out and get some headers.

Russel, when u immediately put bigger injectors on a car, the PCM doesn't know what u did, so it has to take some time to re-learn how to time everything. Ppl like to say 75 miles is when the PCM goes through another cycle, so maybe if u checked the car after that period, the smell would have been gone, but ur experience w/ the DIS-4 seems logical. it has a bunch of sparks fire at lower rpm's, and everyone seems to have much better idle qualities because of it, even if a big cam is in a car, or it's a stocker, the idle is noticably better, and it's mroe fuel efficient since all of it is being burned.

With forced induction on a NA engine, u couldn't go overboard w/ mods, since all they do it allow the car to make power safer and more efficiently.

[black34v6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Arctc Wolf:
Russel, when u immediately put bigger injectors on a car, the PCM doesn't know what u did, so it has to take some time to re-learn how to time everything. Ppl like to say 75 miles is when the PCM goes through another cycle, so maybe if u checked the car after that period, the smell would have been gone, but ur experience w/ the DIS-4 seems logical. it has a bunch of sparks fire at lower rpm's, and everyone seems to have much better idle qualities because of it, even if a big cam is in a car, or it's a stocker, the idle is noticably better, and it's mroe fuel efficient since all of it is being burned.<hr></blockquote>

yea... its possible.. but i dont drive that much. i only drive on the weekends, and the car smelled like gas/ran rich for months (i finished the rebuild in November of last year and installed the MSD in March of this year) - and then after i had hooked it up just noticed no more gas smell.

again i have no catalytic converter - even if the car had adjusted, i mean.. id still get a gas smell cause the gas isnt being burned in the cat (one of the functions of it) - hence the reason i think the car is running better than when i bought it stock (bone stock, 21,740 miles on the odo - non abused)

but yea the 75 miles thing makes sense. o yea just so you get an idea, just three weekends ago i finally hit 3000 miles on the new motor. took it long enough huh? ;)

-R

[v6maro]

If you read the original post, he is asking what he needs to do to prepare for the SC kit, and MSD is NOT required and I will restate it again, it's a worthless tool when it's not needed, the stock ignition is plenty.
-Steve

[BATMAN]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by v6maro:
If you read the original post, he is asking what he needs to do to prepare for the SC kit, and MSD is NOT required and I will restate it again, it's a worthless tool when it's not needed, the stock ignition is plenty.
-Steve<hr></blockquote>

He is right. The current kit is running without an MSD. I would just go with a 3" Highflow cat, and exhaust, headers, NGK TR6 spark plugs, and get gauges. Get the 100psi boost gague with vacume and 100psi Fuel preassure gauges. Becareful to use those guidlines because those gauges are meant for cars that are fuel injected.

[ June 11, 2003: Message edited by: BATMAN ]</p>

[black34v6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 1smurfman:
Hey guys, as yall keep progressing on this kit...and I figure you two know the most about it...can you gimme a list of other necessary mod's for this supercharger to work to potential. (example : headers?? )<hr></blockquote>

that tells me that hes looking for reccomendations of modifications that will aid in the kit. not what he needs that batman has. ie. - parts that will benefit the kit even more. the MSD is a good part to get and will help the engine become more efficient.

i still stand by it. and he should get one if he wants to maximize the supercharger/engine's efficiency.

-R

[DEE97GTP]

If you want better idle and well, I'll be generous, 5hp for $400, then go for it. There are alot of grand prixs in the 12's and 11's that are running on the stock ignition. I am not saying the MSD is a bad unit, it is an improvement over stock, but since the stock coils are so good, it just isn't a very wise investment $/HP wise.

DEE

[nocutt]

Speaking from experience and not what "I heard"...MSD DIS is crap...yes you can use it, but for what? I have ran as much as 11 psi no misfires...gap accordingly! Spend the 300+ mula somewhere else like say...for a reprogram!

[black34v6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by nocutt:
Speaking from experience and not what "I heard"...MSD DIS is crap...yes you can use it, but for what? I have ran as much as 11 psi no misfires...gap accordingly! Spend the 300+ mula somewhere else like say...for a reprogram!<hr></blockquote>

but we aren't referencing about programming. not saying that it will help in changing the fuel curve or anything of the sort. why bring up programming in reference to the MSD? (curious).

and again. maybe its just the fact that i have a 3.4L car. different engine, different response to different things (and dont tell me an engine is an engine...there are lots of factors that go into how something responds to a performance or aftermarket part).

maybe thats why i dont find it to "suck".

anyway. whichever. im just tryin to help the originator of this post. i dont think that one experience one way or the other should sway your opinion in buying a part (to the originator of the post) -- get a poll of how many liked and disliked it before you decide on something...it'll help ya save money in the long run.

-R

[nocutt]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Russell:


but we aren't referencing about programming. not saying that it will help in changing the fuel curve or anything of the sort. why bring up programming in reference to the MSD? (curious).

and again. maybe its just the fact that i have a 3.4L car. different engine, different response to different things (and dont tell me an engine is an engine...there are lots of factors that go into how something responds to a performance or aftermarket part).

maybe thats why i dont find it to "suck".

anyway. whichever. im just tryin to help the originator of this post. i dont think that one experience one way or the other should sway your opinion in buying a part (to the originator of the post) -- get a poll of how many liked and disliked it before you decide on something...it'll help ya save money in the long run.

-R<hr></blockquote>

I apologise if I am coming of sidewayz...the fact remains I see a lot of folks doing things like this almost all the time (Wanting forged units, bigger TBs, BB turbos etc, etc for moderate boost). If your system employs DIS, then an aftermarket ignition system is not "really" worth your time in regards to controlling misfires. I can understand other things like retarding timing, or when you are going all out on the engine. Then again, there are cheaper modules that will do this...IMHO. On a DIS, ignition is very different and "adaptive" to a point that is...
In regards to reprogramming, I was basically suggesting putting the money into a reprogrammed PCM...which will employ MORE gains...than a MSD DIS module!

[Arctc Wolf]

why retard timing to reduce misfires? I'd rather make the extra few hp and get better mileage out of it rather than lose power w/ retarded timing. No, I wouldn't put an ignition unit on a stock car. no, i wouldn't put it on a car w/ all the bolt-on's, I'd just do plugs and low resistance wires. when talking about forced induction and misfires, there's a lot to take into account. plug gapping, spark timing, spark power, and cylinder pressure all affect if a plug will light off the mixture, or misfire.

bigger gaps are more efficient in burning fuel since more spark is exposed, so being able to run stock .050 gaps instead of .035 gaps would be good. I doubt u could do that on a stock ignition w/ FI.

ppl retard timing to prevent misfires, and I explained already why retarding timing sucks.

higher cylinder pressure makes it harder to light off the mixtures because more air/fuel mixture is between the plug gap, making it hard to spark.

if the car can't make enough spark power, it will misfire.

the setup I would run on a FI car would be stock gaps, between .050 and .060, 1 or 2 steps colder plugs, as much timing as i can get w/o detonation w/ the PSI I'm running, and as strong of a spark as I could get to light it all off. this will probly mean re-gapped NGK TR6's, wires, and MSD-DIS-4 w/ MSD or Accel coil packs.