STS Turbos for V6

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by CM boyd:
I think it will be fair to say that the "joke" is anybody
who pays $3K-$5K for something like this or a front mount that cannot pass an emissions test. Regardless, functionality, reliability, and performance are the deciding factors for turbocharger systems. This is clearly subjective to the owner/ tuner who has a specific goal in mind. Its not fair to pass judgement on any setup as long as it works!!

So anybody that wants a good turbo kit, and buys it for over 3000$, that's a joke??? Some people dont want late spool. Some people dont want a dyno queen with horrible looking curves. Some people want boost at a much more usable rpm. Some people want to spend enough time in boost each gear to actually go quicker than 12s in the 1/4 mile. I've never said STS didnt work. I said it didnt work nearly as well as a traditional kit. If you want to get into emissions details, your kit wont be legal either. The biggest reason alot of V8 guys seemed togo thr route of STS is because a lack of room in the engine compartment. You V6 guys have so much room up there it's not even funny. It's easy to build traditional kit on one of those cars.

And also, it's not fair to pass judgement as long as it works?? Bull****. Just because a system works doesnt mean it works well, and everybody has the right to say what they think about it wether it's a good opinion or bad. You didnt seem to be jumping on those people who's judgement was a good one.

[T-Punk]

This is the least efficient turbo system around. All the power in the remote style turbo systems is in the high rpm range (kinda like a v-tec engine). I also have got to agree with gn-t66 that there is so much room up front for us that i see no reason why you wouldnt make a traditional turbo system. If you were to make your own traditional and do all the work you would find it would be just as expensive (maybe slightly more with the IC).

[Tyler]

the only thing i see.. .48 a/r on the hot side.. gonna restrict flow on the topend. unless you have a big *** wastegate. its gonna cancel the boost out beacause of such a small housing. unless you have a bigass wastegate. but then again.. im interested to see how it turns out.. and wish u the best of luck.


Edit : added in "unless you have a bigass Wastegate"

[OneQuickV6]

Haven't seen a V6 with the rear-mount run at the track yet, but the one I've talked to a shop about has dyno numbers. His car is right at competely stock, just has a 3500rpm verter. It mad 420rwhp and I don't remember the torque number off the top of my head. You aren't stuck with the trubo they advertise either, most dealers can adjust them for your needs. His car has a step down from the one they advertise for the LS1 kit. He's run as much as 12psi with the methanol, up to 7psi daily without it.

Tried to recruit him to the boards, and he said he used to lurk, and got tired of reading the drama, refuses to post here. Oh well. I amd ebating going this route next summer, or just throwing in an LS1 to run 10's NA with a stock bottom end.

[CM boyd]

Thanks, everyone for your input. I was unable
to complete the kit this weekend because the guys
at the shop were a bunch of slackers! I am glad to get back different types of feedback because it is good to see there is interest in this project. FYI, the turbo is integral wastegated.
If efficiency becomes a problem, I can just upgrade to a larger exhaust housing and external
wastegate. I hope that I can fininsh today after
work. I decided to go with this setup because I
already shelled out $600.00 bucks for RKSPORT headers and I would like to keep them. I think
the FFF kit would be fine but the cost is another
issue. If I had more time a custom kit would
really be the best choice. Thanks for the replies. It seems like there is alot of "drama"
concerning these kits, but I still say that the
street is the only way to tell if it is worth it!

[Tyler]

well hey, you know what? let me know if this still works.. cause i got the body kit, nobody will see the turbo back ther.. make sure u get lots of pictures. Good luck, im curious as hell

[CM boyd]

The head builders name is Jim. He has a camera phone and I will get him to take some shots for me. Anybody know how to get them on the website.
I hate to sound like an idiot but I am not too
good with computers. Any suggestions. If anyone
wants to see the LS1 pics then go to http://www.ststurbo.com/ and you can see how the setup was done.

[nightrida]

go for it boyd. i am a believer of the kit. if you need some help email me.

[kahouna23]

Yeah...I'm REALLY curious too! I'm getting all the pieces together and should have everything by February to start putting my remote kit together. I went the same route you did by not getting the STS kit and doing it myself. I'm having all my "turbo'd Import" friends help me out. So, far so good. Pictures will be a big help on how you routed your oil lines, where you mounted the oil scavenge pump, and how you ended up routing the boost piping. Those are my three main concernes. I am kinda worried about ground clearance with the boost piping though. I have speed bumps in my neighborhood.

SPEED BUMPS= the DEVIL [img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

Actually, if you could email me some pictures that would be an even bigger help. Hit me up....

kahouna23@yahoo.com ...thanks...

[CM boyd]

Hey, I am really willing to help anybody out with
the setup. I know where to get the hoses (trubo
quality hoses) all for about $100.00 or less. I
am going to take pictures real soon so that everyone can see how the system mounts and works. All you really have to do is just follow the pictures that you get on the sts turbochargers website. That is what I did. I carefully routed the oil and water lines (I have a water sealed bearing ) down each side of the
vehicle. I used transmission oil cooler lines
which is very cheap. To be on the safe side you
might want to get a professional welder to build
the exhaust ducting and the turbo outlet unless you are real good and have your own equipment.
UPDATE: It kinda stinks that my shop builder, Jim,
did not have time today to complete the work.
I still have the compressor ducting to install!
I know that it sounds nice driving down the street with the turbo spooling and all, but without it complete this is just a waste of time.
I think I should have held on to the $200 bucks
I paid him until it was complete! This is what happens when you try to work on your daily driver!
I adjsuted the wastegate back to less boost pressure because as long as the car is NA it lacks
power in the upper RPMS. No street challenges until then. Hey anybody like driving around town
doing the speed limit.

[Ian]

You people that complain about boost lag kill me. I already had a great example. Take a coiled up hose, put your mouth to one end, and put your hand on the other end. Blow. Notice air comes out IMMEDIATELY? There is NO lag associated with piping length, EXPECIALLY something like 14 ft of pipe with extremely compressed air going through it.

GM Boyd, im glad someone went ahead and did this. Dynos, a cost list, and pics will put the naysayers in their place. I am a firm believer of the remote-mount kits!

Excellent work!

[Teufel Hunden]

Ian, if that's true, why are all the STS cars running 12s with well over 400hp? Hmmm, kinda makes you wonder doesn't it? :D Hell, even the POSTER CHILD STS car with a built 396 LS1 was only running mid 12s. That's with a stalled Automatic and a 9" rear end too.... interesting stuff isn't it?

What you're forgetting in your example with the hose, is HEAT drives turbos. Also, we're not talking about just moving air around, we're talking about spinning the turbo fast enough to compress the air to a pressure over atmospheric. That compression of the air takes alot of energy, and the energy is in the form of HEATED exhaust gases. An exhaust pipe cools hundreds of degrees in inches. So yes, there is a correlation between Boost threshold, lag, and pipe length, because the longer the pipe, the cooler the exhaust gases, which means there's less energy to spin the turbine.

[ December 08, 2004, 02:37 AM: Message edited by: Teufel Hunden ]

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by Ian:
You people that complain about boost lag kill me. I already had a great example. Take a coiled up hose, put your mouth to one end, and put your hand on the other end. Blow. Notice air comes out IMMEDIATELY? There is NO lag associated with piping length, EXPECIALLY something like 14 ft of pipe with extremely compressed air going through it.

GM Boyd, im glad someone went ahead and did this. Dynos, a cost list, and pics will put the naysayers in their place. I am a firm believer of the remote-mount kits!

Excellent work!

You people that completely ignore the results that have come from this kit KILL ME!!!!! the dyno graphs are out there. One member of another camaro site made an interesting observation.. he put two dyno graphs up.. one was an STS LS1 car with a 67 headunit on it. the other graph was that from a 93+ supra with the identical turbo. funny thing.. the graphs were identical in shape identifying nearly identical boost thresholds for both cars. So a supra with 3 liters of displacement is spooling the turbo just as quick as an engine with nearly double the displacement (5.7 liters)... I cant spell it out any clearer than that for people who refuse to believe that you cant break the laws of physics. Does anybody esle see a problem with the above?? I know if have 5.7 liters of displacement, I want it to spool the turbo like it should, not like a 3 liter motor with a proper turbo setup does. If I wanted a supra, I'd go buy a supra. Keep another thing in mind.. a supra has alot more rpm to work with on the high end.. On the above example, that supra will spend more time in boost per gear because it has a redline that is more than 1000rpm higher. On the V8 car.. you get into boost and you're shifting right back out of it pretty quickly. I could go on presenting issues, but back to Ian's post. Your hose example is really very cute.... but not too valid here. You're not really doing anything to significantly increase the pressure inside that hose.. more just moving atmospheric pressure around. plug the end of that hose, then put a gauge in it, and see if you can raise the pressure any amount. Now, take another piece of hose, 5 inches long, and do the same thing. What do you think you're going to see? Which one will see a quicker and more efficient rise in pressure? I'll give you one guess.

[CM boyd]

GN-T66,Teufel Hunden,everyone... I really enjoy the feedback. Just a reminder that there are pros and cons to this setup. In the best interest
of forced induction you just have to look at the
facts. The kit works!!!! Who the H*** would want
to pay $4000 bucks for it though! It at best is a
"budget head" style of turbocharging that allows the user to go back to stock if desired. It is so simple that I truly believe some of us do not
want to read the information on the website or the
posts other people have had (home built kits or purchased) concerning its effectiveness. I must
agree that if I had more time, knowledge, and MONEY that I would be looking for a front mount unit. I would probably go for a much better turbo instead of a rebuilt unit as well! I am not asking anyone to jump on the bandwagon, but I just say that we should give it a chance. How much did you guys spend on your systems vs how much could be paid to go just as fast with the remote setup. Believe it or not the PROS of this
setup outweigh by far the cons if you are looking
for mild to good performance. I promise to get some numbers real soon to end this nightmare!

[T-Punk]

here is something very basic that you need to read before you put you money in the sts style system http://www.turbochargedpower.com/Placement.htm have fun. its short but informitive for someone who doesnt understand how heat drives a turbo (hence why remote turbo systems are not efficient at all)