STS Turbos for V6

[kahouna23]

I like the fact that it's unique. Some people aren't all about just "performance". I like the fact that I'll have something that not too many people around my area will have. I'm all about going to the car shows, and putting together a custom rear mount kit will surely get points in the creative aspect. As for the performance, I think I'd have to agree that if that's what you're looking for...a front mount kit is the way to go. Like I said though, it's all about being unique for me. I can't wait until I get everything together so I can install.

[Tyler]

when talking about the theory of which it wont get hot enough at the back of the car....

When i was sorta researching this a while ago i was thinking.. okay, we all have pretty much free flowing exhaust, and larger pipes.. which means duh, its going to flow very freely. Anyways.. reduce the pipe to like 2.5 inch to the turbo, the turbo is going to create backpressure which will allow the exhaust to heat the whole exhaust more thoroughly.. or something transferring the heat more rapidly due to the pressure... cant really put it in words. Hope you get the picture though.

or just call me crazy

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by Tyler:
when talking about the theory of which it wont get hot enough at the back of the car....

When i was sorta researching this a while ago i was thinking.. okay, we all have pretty much free flowing exhaust, and larger pipes.. which means duh, its going to flow very freely. Anyways.. reduce the pipe to like 2.5 inch to the turbo, the turbo is going to create backpressure which will allow the exhaust to heat the whole exhaust more thoroughly.. or something transferring the heat more rapidly due to the pressure... cant really put it in words. Hope you get the picture though.

or just call me crazy

Unfortunately, I dont think it's going to end up working out that way. You will indeed create backpressure in the pipe to the turbo, but it's heating affect on the gases will be negligeble. Exhaust gases cool off hundreds of degrees in a matter of inches coming out of manifolds. SOmething to keep in mind is that when reading a turbo map, those maps are figured off of a certain incoming exhaust temperature. With an STS kit, those turbo maps are no longer relevent, as the incoming exhaust gas temp is roughly half that of a tradtional kit's. Besides, even if there is some truth to your theory, by restructing the exhaust that much, the car will fall flat on it's face on the top end. One problem with the turbo used in an STS kit is that in order to make up for such a long pipe to the turbo, people use a smaller AR exhaust housing to decrease spool times. This small exhaust housing is more than enough to kill top end performance and flow. And at part throttle driving around, the engine is having a hard time breathing. That smaller AR exhaust plus a smaller pipe to the turbo would be a bad idea IMO.

[Tyler]

yea i figured that much with the hot side a/r size..

good stuff, thanks for clearing that up

[CM boyd]

Actually It does not have a hard time breathing at all. Scientific fact says that you are correct. But, like I said before, this is not a
"traditional" system. From personal experience my custom remote kit kept the long intake tubes
pressurized even without boost. I had better performance driving around without the wastegate
connected. Ok, my exhaust system had been upgraded as well: RK Sport headers, no catalytic
converters, Spiral Max turbo pipe, O2 sensor simulator. Modifications to the current exhaust system WILL make a difference in backpressure and
performance with these systems. Otherwise, a bone stock exhaust system would loose out in the
top end and possibly have some idle diving issues
like lower RPMS from the smaller A/R restrictions.
You have the option of upgrading to a larger turbine, and I am currently sending mine in to be
rebuilt with a .63 A/R exhaust housing. I want
to keep my boost relative to the 3000-4000 rpm
range anyhow. The car will drive as close to
stock as you can get.

[GN-T66]

Originally posted by CM boyd:
Actually It does not have a hard time breathing at all. Scientific fact says that you are correct. But, like I said before, this is not a
"traditional" system. From personal experience my custom remote kit kept the long intake tubes
pressurized even without boost. I had better performance driving around without the wastegate
connected. Ok, my exhaust system had been upgraded as well: RK Sport headers, no catalytic
converters, Spiral Max turbo pipe, O2 sensor simulator. Modifications to the current exhaust system WILL make a difference in backpressure and
performance with these systems. Otherwise, a bone stock exhaust system would loose out in the
top end and possibly have some idle diving issues
like lower RPMS from the smaller A/R restrictions.
You have the option of upgrading to a larger turbine, and I am currently sending mine in to be
rebuilt with a .63 A/R exhaust housing. I want
to keep my boost relative to the 3000-4000 rpm
range anyhow. The car will drive as close to
stock as you can get.

Like I tell all STS owners (and they all for some reason refuse to believe it)... you cannot bypass the laws of physics. You cant say it doesnt have a hard time breathing. It does. the smaller the pipe, the smaller the exhaust housing, the more restriction there will be throughout thr rpm range. It will be the most apparent in the upper rpm range when your power will fall off quicker than a traditional kit.

I've ridden in an STS car, and it was a V8 no less. Boost will come on later in the rpm range.. the car will not drive like stock. lag will be appreciable and boost threshold high. Some people have a hard time distinguishing lag, and knowing how to idenify it. Boost on the V8 STS car I rode in started at 3500rpm. However, this in my mind was not the real world threshold. It would finally hit meaningful (and feelable) boost at about 4500rpm. there was little performance difference from 3500-4500 over similar NA V8 car.

[CM boyd]

And after everything gets said and done....
The system still works! Its like Nike, just do it.

[GN-T66]

You're basing your entire argument off of "it works"...... You've talked it up so much that no matter if you are happy with the performance or not, you're going to come on here and tell everyone it works great. I have a feeling thats what a lot of STS owners have done, because they stuck their necks out before they bought it and backed the system fully, wether they knew for sure or not it was going to perform. Is your only goal simply to have a working turbo setup, regardless of how well it works?

[CM boyd]

Not at all sir, my immediate goal was to have the
fastest 3800 powered Firebird here in Memphis! All
I really needed was an additional 50 horses to get the bird to 300 flywheel horsepower. I have
a multitutde of mods with abosolutely no internal
engine work. You have to be realistic when you look at the bone stock performance of a V6 Fbody with an Auto tranny. Plainly, I was getting
beaten by alot of lightweight 4 cylinder and import cars that did not even have boost or nitrous! I pumped about 4 grand into my car already and still could not beat my friend's Firebird with no more than a manual transmission
and K&N air filter. My immediate goals are truly personal towards the fact that I am the only person who has this setup, and once again it does work. IT WORKS WELL FOR MY NEEDS!!!
Look, all I am basing this claim is on the fact of before and after performance. I was driving around with a bad tubo that only put out around
2 lbs and my car was accelerating like crazy. With the proper turbine ratio (and a unit that has a good bearing) My goals of 6lbs will be reached. I know enough about my car to tell you
everything that works well regardless of what you say because you ain't drivin it! You can make the
same claim about your GN and Z28. You have respectful times and know everything about what
works well. If this custom project was full of
bull, I guarantee that I would steer everyone form wasting money on an STS kit. Do you really
think that these guys are sitting around with flies hangin off their butts? They are gettin'
fat RICH. All I am trying to do is help others
make a decision to try this at their own expense,
with less money than what those bums want! Hey I can help them avoid some of the mistakes I made in putting mine together! If I am wrong in my
ambitions to assist others and learn please be
my guest to play God and judge me for my shortcomings! [img]graemlins/twak.gif[/img]

[Shirl]

Oh no, not this crap again... Look, if you have a kit or want to build one, that's great. But don't go leading members around by their noses, taking their money, and then not coming up with the goods. That has already happened more than once. Mass produce something, then take orders. Thanks.

[imported_admin]

Originally posted by Shirl:
Oh no, not this crap again... Look, if you have a kit or want to build one, that's great. But don't go leading members around by their noses, taking their money, and then not coming up with the goods. That has already happened more than once. Mass produce something, then take orders. Thanks.

Perhaps I read this entire thread incorrectly but that doesn't look like what he's saying at all. I have been known to be blind but I see no reference to him taking any member's money.

This seems (to me) to be a pretty good discussion about an alternative type of turbo kit. Some passionate opinions pro and con, but no need for a lock, and it is certainly not a "send me your money" scam.

Re-opening. Thank you.

CM boyd--keep us posted, this could be interesting. Best of luck! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Shirl]

K, my bad.. Stefan. I only skimmed the surface on it and read somewhere in there that it looked like he was going to sell parts or something.. sorry bout' that. [img]graemlins/love.gif[/img]

[imported_admin]

Originally posted by Shirl:
K, my bad.. Stefan. I only skimmed the surface on it and read somewhere in there that it looked like he was going to sell parts or something.. sorry bout' that. [img]graemlins/love.gif[/img]

No worries. [img]smile.gif[/img] Like the admins around here are angels who have never jumped to conclusions... HAHAHAHA... [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

Carry on. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[GN-T66]

I wanna see some dyno graphs [img]smile.gif[/img]

[CM boyd]

Me too, heck I can't wait until I get the blasted
Tubo back!! I called yesterday and East Coast Turbo said they received it. I did not get a return call concerning my request for the proper
a/r turbine. Like someone mentioned before it is
a fine line between reliability and inexpensive. I hope to have a better one back by the new year. Please keep some faith in my project... thank you
administrators for your support!

Update: I got a GM 85mm MAF sensor with boot and
block off plate from ZZP Performance. I am going to drill a 1/8 NPT tap into the block off plate and install the methanol/alcohol injection nozzle
there. I got it from McMaster-Carr. The hole is
absolutely perfect for this application. I am getting a 3.5 inch hose connector for the MAF sensor, and am moving it down stream about 8 inches from the throttlebody.