3.8 Procharger 2.0 Report

[imported_admin]

Alright, finally woke up. Had to catch up on some desperately-needed sleep after this weekend's 30+ hours of driving. ;)

Steve more or less covered everything in the other post, I just wanted to add a detail or two... the new setup, once complete, will not be an official kit, but it will be more of an adapter. The idea is you order your supercharger, intercooler, gauges, low-profile fan, and a few other small parts (we will have lists of exactly what you need to order from ATI). Then you order the conversion parts from us. The parts include: INSTRUCTIONS, 8+8 crankshaft pulley (has room for the 8-rib serpentine belt and the 8-rib supercharger belt), supercharger mounting bracket, and a few pipes and hoses. Because you won't be ordering the full kit from ATI, the end cost will be around the same as an LT1 or LS1 kit (around $3500). We're not looking to make any major profit, we just want to see more 3.8s out there blowing the doors off the competition.

With the intercooled setup, 12 psi should present no problems to the stock internals of the 3.8. With 12 psi, full factory timing, and the intercooler, our setup should be able to provide around 310 hp at the rear wheels, a 150 improvement over stock. Details of this will be confirmed when Ryan (BATMAN) gets his dyno numbers within the next two months. We'll be comparing his to mine, that has the same setup but a boost-built motor.

Getting there...

[John]

WOW :eek:

I'll start saving now :D

John

[DeathBuzzz]

are you serious when you say 310 RWHP?!?!

[TealV6]

Yes. 310 was NOT a typo. This is a very realistic goal and we will prove it shortly. After that, we are going to attack the 3.4L. We need to see how far we can push that one ;)

Steve

[Mcaanda]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TealV6:
After that, we are going to attack the 3.4L. We need to see how far we can push that one ;)
<hr></blockquote>

Push it until the competition :eek: BLEEDS :eek:

Then tell 'em it's [img]graemlins/omg.gif[/img] Just a V6 [img]graemlins/omg.gif[/img]

[Night Rider]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by DeathBuzzz:
are you serious when you say 310 RWHP?!?!<hr></blockquote>

that's the first thing i thought too, when i read it. Holy crap, if that can be proven, than i'm definitely in. Already got $1000. saved up sitting in the bank. I'm sure i could have another $2500. w/in 6mths w/ no problems.

[mike malloy]

sounds good, is there a projected date for the kit. i hope this doesn't fall through the cracks

[Dominic]

305-310 rwhp is correct, I confirm that with my calculations for 12PSI.

I was told the stock internals couldnt handle 12PSI, now all of a sudden they can? What gives? [img]smile.gif[/img]

btw, thats approx 370bhp [img]smile.gif[/img] a 170hp increase in engine capability...

[Silver2000V6]

Thanks guys! I'll be keeping my car and going with your setup when you get it worked out if these numbers hold up. I can't wait to see the result of BATMAN's dyno! Some track times would be cool too. Is it just the intercooling that allows the engine to handle that much more boost than a powerdyne would allow?

310rwhp!! [img]graemlins/omg.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

[southern94]

HELLO supercharged 3.4!!!!!!!

[imported_admin]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheCardinal:
305-310 rwhp is correct, I confirm that with my calculations for 12PSI.

I was told the stock internals couldnt handle 12PSI, now all of a sudden they can? What gives?<hr></blockquote>

I was told the stock internals couldn't handle 6 psi, let alone 9, let alone 11 or 12... the fact remains that no 3.8 owner that hangs out on any of the major online F-Body sites has ever blown an engine due to running too much boost.

Boost doesn't cause engines to blow, detonation does. Detonation can be minimized by cooling the incoming air (intercooling and/or using nitrous), by retarding the timing, and by using high-octane fuel. I'm not saying everyone should run 12 psi, far from it, I'm just saying that's what I ran when I had stock internals and the only problem I had was blowing the dipstick (fixed that since then, it was a problem with too much exhaust backpressure--working the heads and going 3" straight through solved it). I had that pressure for about six months and when we tore the motor apart the pistons were still in fine shape. Pics of them can be seen at www.firebirdv6.com/projectvirus/engine.html and I still have them sitting in a box in my closet. No damage.

Saying 12 psi is safe is by ricer math, so don't quote me on that. That's assuming that a non-intercooled setup at 9 psi is safe (which time and time again Powerdyne owners have shown us, running 93 octane fuel and retarding the timing slightly); intercooling, according to magazines and other "gurus", typically allows 5-6 more psi. So by that math 12 psi should be decently safe. Possibly a bit of ignition retard would be a wise idea on stock internals.

As far as built internals are concerned, the 3.8 block is strong... the only major weak link is the piston assemblies. This is what Thrasher and other GTP companies have worked on when they were building their 400+ hp L67s. If you want to consistently run 12+ psi with no ignition retard, L67 internals would do the trick for strength, and worked L67 heads from Thrasher would do wonders for increasing power.

I'm not sure what Batman's eventual goal is but mine remains the same, to push 15 psi and push over 400 rwhp. Only thing keeping me back now is the fuel system, and that costs money, which for another two months or so I still don't have...

[V6Turbo]

12psi will be plenty "safe", as long as you take all the precautions. Good gas, colder plugs, intercooler, pull timing, etc. Same as n2o, play it safe, things will go great. Be cheap, and boom.

[Dominic]

I guess we'll see how well it works.

What about the fuel system? Can the 22# injectors keep the engine stoich with that much air?

Also when you mention retarding the timing, since the timing is computer controlled how would one go about retarding it slightly to reduce detonation... perhaps the engine control systems do it automatically?

Goodluck to you and Batman, its definetly doable, I just hope there aren't any kinks in it to be found [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Mike Mayron]

The l36 may or may not hold 12PSI but the way to tell for sure is to get an EGT and keep the hottest cylinder (any1 know which?) below 1600*, which is usually when the piston will melt. You can run as much boost as your little heart desires up untill that point, weither it's 9lbs or 15lbs, that is the only limiting factor (yes only). If you don't have enough fuel, it'll be higher than 1600 and boom, too much fuel and you'll never get past 1400. It's the most accurate way to tune a forced induction car and is superior to any A/F meter because when it comes down to it, you need to know when the piston will melt, not weither your A/F mixture is correct (piston heat will tell you about your mixture).

Keep up the good work guys.

[Damien214]

Looks like everybody is going to beat me to forced induction now, but oh well. I'm going to build the hell out of the motor first and then run 12 psi and 7000 rpm redline. Should be PLENTY dependable and should be good for over 400 rwhp, easy. Not for a little while though. Thanks for the kit guys, looks like my 10 second car is going to be a lot cheaper than previously thought. By the way Stefan, I'm waiting for you to put that 15 psi pulley on, then we will see if all the critics are right about a 450 rwhp 3.8 being not possible. Keep up the good work guys. [img]smile.gif[/img]