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ok...i've seen a few threads where the notion of an eletric supercharge is mocked...but say...by finding the speed of the air entering the engine and ussing a mutli-impeller blade instead of a plastic fan to effectively double or even triple that speed, and a variable risistor to coordinate the engine speed and "blower" speed, would it be possible to have decent pressure ratings in a stock engine
Note...i'm using a 3.4 as a lab-rat fo the eventual V-8 swap set for next summer so i don't really care if it blows-the-****-up
I think that to do this, you would have to have a motor that is so large and consumes so much electric power that it just becomes impractical. It's just easier and simpler to create a system that runs off the engine's exhaust gases. Even the stock engine at high RPM's consumes so much air that no electric motor can keep up, much less push so much air that it builds boost.
there ar in existance and accually easy to get motors that are no bigger than 2 inchs wide that can crank out about 13000 rpm and 9000 under a 2lb load and there only 9 volt...coupled with the proper designed impeller not a cheap *** marine fan...it may be posible
my next option was to put a belt driven impeller betwine the throtle body and the intake manifold
there ar in existance and accually easy to get motors that are no bigger than 2 inchs wide that can crank out about 13000 rpm and 9000 under a 2lb load and there only 9 volt...coupled with the proper designed impeller not a cheap *** marine fan...it may be posible
my next option was to put a belt driven impeller betwine the throtle body and the intake manifold
what would hold the impeller in place? there would be no bearing there? also it would be very difficult to run an IC. The turbo is a wonderful design, stick with that, and if you are concerned about boost off the line, get a high stall and some better internals.
food for thought- 1 horsepower is equal to 746 watts. nothing short of a lawmower motor would make this work. there is a reason why these things dont work. they will not,can not, produce enough energy to create boost.
if you really want to waste your money just send it to me and ill put it towards something useful. :D
current car- 95 Trans am- bolt ons, parked and collecting dust. why? because **** it
the impeller would be held by 2 bearings. the blades would be held betwinw the bearings and it would all be held on by longe bolts in the stock throtle body holes...u also need to take into account that most eletric motors are only rated to 10 amps at the most...there are a few motors that can handle the full amper age but they're producing more hp than speed...they run at 4000rpm at .5-4hp...now what i mean by properly designed blades is...the greater the surface area the more air you can push...one you get a lager enough voulum of air u can have a greater effect... and keep in mind the enginge would NOT be mounted in the intake tube...it would be mounted outside the tube with a long drive shaft to alow the least risistance to flow. that also allows the use of much larger motors...it also isn't a very far feched idea to have a motor and use a gear set simalar to a transmission only theres only 1 gear to amplify the speed of the output shaft...its a comon technology used on r/c cars to alow a single low power motor with a max speed of 5,000rmp to reach a speed of 40mph...a fan blade at 40mph is going to do a lot compair to just a strait motor
oh my god dude... don't even try this. you do not understand everything at work. genious physics and engineers for years have been trying to understand fluid flow. We still do not have concrete laws that govern their reactions. correction factors out the *** help us get close. you have no idea what you are talking about. "larger blades push more air"... no, that is not true at all. the shape of the blade is far more important. These motors do not spin at 40 mph. they spin at RPM's... some turbo's can reach rpms in the 70000 range. I used to be big into RC cars, so i know what they are capable of. None go anywhere close to that RPM. and they are not reliable for the conditions you are talking about. please do not waste your money. If anything, you will be loosing hp cause your alternator will be working harder and you now have an obstruction inside the intake that is blocking air from entering the engine.
Please search this topic. There are a few threads with calculations to show why this doesnt work. I dont have the time to find them now. just look into it more before you waste your money.
Phill<br /><br />95 camaro... need money for turbo project... <br />94 S10 Blazer - winter beater - infinity system to be installed soon<br /><br />\"The man who says it cant be done should not interrupt the man doing it...\"
exactly/\/\ what im saying is that it'll take something like a 20hp motor to create close to one pound of boost if that.
youre wasting your time NO ONE has been able to prove that an E-turbo/supercharger will work. in some cases people who have tried found out that they lost power due to the air flow being more restricted by thier "great idea"
we're just trying to save you the time and money here. bottom line here is that it wont work.
current car- 95 Trans am- bolt ons, parked and collecting dust. why? because **** it
lemme put it to you this way:
your car pulls in air on every other revolution. so (assuming 100% volumetric efficiency) at 6000 rpms the each cylinder will get 3000 intake strokes.
3.8L * 3000 = 11400 litres per minute. convert to cubic feet/min and you get:
0.0353146667 * 11400 = 402.5872004 cfm.
so, your car is moving about 400 cfm at WOT.... NATURALLY ASPIRATED. you'll have to make some sort of device that can push more 400 cfm just to not restrict the engine. for reference, most GAS powered leaf blowers put out anywhere from 200-350 cfm. thats with a small motor. to try to get that kind of power with an electric motor is simply not feasible dude. you'll need some sort of monster alternator, the electric motor would be huge, and you'll lose hp thru the whole setup because the engine will turn the alt, lose energy changing mechanical to electrical, energy loss thru the wires to resistance, then energy loss with the motor changing electric to mechanic energy again.
I'm probably oversimplifying this, because obviously thats only ideal, the engine is limited by heads and cam and intake/exhaust efficiency... i'm just trying to get the idea thru that you need a sh!t-ton of power to generate boost, and you might as well just make it as simple and efficient as possible: driven mechanically by the engine. K.I.S.S.
it cant be done. to try and put 9 psi, you'll need to come up with a motor to put out almost 700 cfm!! you'll spend way more than just shelling out the money for a mechanical turbo kit.
the ONLY way i could see this being feasible AT ALL would be to rip out a hybrid car's battery and electric motor...
2000 3.8L Camaro A4 Pewter Y87<br />K&N Filter, SLP Ram Air kit, Eibach Pro Kit, Flowmaster 80 series, Silverstars, NGK plugs and MSD Super Conductor Wires, Electric Water Pump
Some guy for a college project had appearantly mounted a leaf blower to his intake, and it worked, I no longer have the link, but,the guy did have the car dyno'd before and after the mod (yes, that was the only mod preformed) and it did gain him some suprising HP gain, Im not sure what the number was, but it was a 30 something, or a 70 something HP gain.
Take it or leave it with a grain of salt, as I dont ahve any links to back it up anymore, but thats what I can remember from the post.
BTW, for his secong semester, he had tried to devise a twin leaf blower idea.
ok notice i specificly said to mount the motor externaly so it is NOT an obstruction...also i said the cars car go that fast by using gears to amplify the speed to the out put shaft, that being the one with the fan blades on it... and properly engineered blades...meaning the blades are curved the whole thing would be about 10inches long the blades would be given an areofoil shape and useing the gears i could achive rpms close to a turbo...i would like for yous to accualy read the post instead of just glance at it and try to disclaim the theory...nowthe leaf blow thing is retarded the turbine shape is corret for the aplication but the motor is a joke. now a hobby motor would fry in seconds at that amperage and heat but there are sites that sell them for high amp high heat aplications...and as far as working the alternator...all i have to say is optima...i'm not talking about revolutionary phisics i'm talking about recreating the effect of a turbo or supercharger
now what i'm going to do is mount the fan assembly in the intake with the no motor and see how fast the blades spin...take into account that that air is moving slightly faster and attempt to force the air at 2-3 times that vilocity... what u must kep in mind is this is not some pos just thrown together theres accual thought behind this...what u see online is jackasses with video cameras and broken appliances
ok notice i specificly said to mount the motor externaly so it is NOT an obstruction
doesnt work that way. the fan has to be inline on the intake. if you try and make a y-pipe thing outta it, with normal intake on one side and super on the other to add pressure, you need a some sort of valving system to prevent your pressure from blowing out the other side (assuming you actually get pressure). thus, putting the impeller in line means that if it does not move more air than the engine is pulling in, then thats the restriction that we're talking about. of course you'd mount the motor outside of the passages.
i dunno man, you got some bad ideas goin on there and i'm too lazy to quote you for every one but go for it, try it if ya want. BUT consider these things first:
1. yeah, you can gear it so that the impeller spins faster, but if you've ever ridden a multi-speed bike, the high gear makes it really hard to pedal, even tho you can pump your legs much less to go faster, so you'll need a motor with a fu*kton of torque, which leads back to energy constraints
2. if this was a feasible idea, the auto makers woulda gotten on board with it a long time ago.
3. something 10 inches long is never gonna fit under that hood, sorry
4. you HAVE to be able to move a ton of air. my last post told you you'll need to be able to push at least 400 cfm just to keep up with the engine at WOT. a little less you could get away with but it wouldnt do you any good... it'd just be a waste of money.
5. Electric superchargers
Forget about it. Our supercharger dyno struggles to power an M90. The motor we use weighs about 400 pounds and draws 100,000 watts. That's the equivalent of nearly dead shorting 10 Optima batteries in parallel! Do you really think a 120 watt fan is going to do anything? No. The only thing it will do is restrict the airflow your engine is trying to draw in.
^^thats straight off of zzperformance.com's write up under technical archives "mods you dont need".
6. Lubrication! you'll need some way to lube that thing if its gonna be spinning that fast, and 2, you'll need some way to cool it too! you cant ignore stuff like that
7. i know you got good intentions and you really wanna make this clean, and honestly, i respect that... we all do. thats what this site is about: doing stuff yourself. but some things just arent feasible by the laws of physics. i'm sorry dude.
if you still wanna do it, let us know about your progress. if you happen to pull it off somehow, then i'm sure they're be people on here willing to buy.
2000 3.8L Camaro A4 Pewter Y87<br />K&N Filter, SLP Ram Air kit, Eibach Pro Kit, Flowmaster 80 series, Silverstars, NGK plugs and MSD Super Conductor Wires, Electric Water Pump
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