Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

[ssms5411]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

This is useful information for me. I have the same size intercooler except 3" thick, so if I blatantly copy what you do, it should be 1" easier for me.:o

Now I won't post pics, thanks for the info. Will be finishing it up tomorrow , I hope or Sunday. You will still have to grind the frame rails, it was the lenght not depth that was the problem. One could probably fit a water to air intercooler in there.

[ssms5411]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

Heres a pic of the intercooler mounted and some pipes ran to make it easier when I get the turbo on.

[Kilted]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

Drat. Foiled again.

[Blizzard242]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

lmao, at least you took the bumper off to correctly mount that up.. I just put mine in where it would fit. I'm taking care of all of this right now with this garage time though. More pics more pics!

[ssms5411]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

Thats all the pipes I'm going to run for now, until the turbo goes on, so I can route the pipes where they need to go when the DP is done and everything in place. Its easier when you know how everything is in place, I bought another CXR kit for some more pipes ,so I should have alot left over when I'm done. I got a new oil pan and gasket to see if I'm going to either tap and JB weld the one in the car or go ahead and weld the -10an fitting in the new pan. I got a new felpro pan gasket that has a new design where you don't have to use gasket sealer , it says but I don't trust oil pan gaskets with out sealer. I should be able to take it off pretty easy with the TUB. K and also install a new oil pickup and also install the oil PIS kit. I still need to go down and order the Manley valves for the spare heads. So I will have some new stock SI valves for sell, once I get the new Manely ones.

[ssms5411]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

Here are the end pics with everything back together, I think the average person maybe 1day maybe 2 at the most, not 5 days,LOL. Turned out alot better than I thought doing a hour or 2 a day. Now I'll rest up this next week to do the oil pan etc. and the bigger radiator with some help.

[Blizzard242]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

Oh, snap. that looks good hiding back there.

BTW off topic. I'm so sick of that ne0 guy. He's such a ****ing **** and I'm pretty certain he's oblivious to it.

Anyways, I can't wait to see what you're doing with those oval pipes. After I install my front KYB AGX in since I have my new Kmember in Whoot!, I'm redoing a bunch of my hot pipes. No more scraping bull**** and horrible flowing flattened pipes for me. I can't wait to see how it performs after this.

So when do you think you're gonna get near that?

[ssms5411]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

I was surprised that there was so much room on the front end. I wish I could have a flat front like the new Challengers, But it fits really good. I'm going to tap the oil pan, install the oil PSI kit, install the 65LB injectors and do the bigger radiator. After that I will either spot weld the pipes up and the down pipe back to the exhaust and have them tig welded then spray them down with the 2000 degree paint. Or I might just take it down to the Garrett dealer where I got my turbo and have them mock up everything and tig weld it all, knowing me I'll probably do it myself. I need to install/weld the EGT sensor(the bung part) in the T4/T3 adapter and hook it up to my Aeroforce gauge. The water and oil lines should be no problem since they will be hooked up when the turbo goes on. I still have my rear QA-1's adjustables to install also, will be nice to have front & rear adjustability. The Blisteins have been great but I'll like to see how having the adjustables on there. Glad you got the TUB. K on there makes things alot easier, only thing that sucks is the 100 zip ties.LOL I think it will still be about 2-3 months or more, I'm not rushing anything. As long as I get a clean install and everything is safe for normal driving without any issues I'll be happy. With all the stainless steel, polished parts and Alm. it should look great also.

[Emulsifide]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

ssms5411,

Any idea what kind of flow numbers your intercooler offers? I'm just curious for another project I have going on.

[ssms5411]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

I don't know a whlole lot about FI or modding better to ask US2Ding on FTV6 he should know all the answers.

[ssms5411]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

I responded down below:



iTrader: (0) Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticbird45
you might want to consider getting the 928 full racing rebuild now. Powerdyne's hate intercoolers and tend to have bearing failure a lot quicker on intercooled setups


And that's one of the myths I tend to dispell. I'm assuming you're referring to ssms17607's post:

*(How is it a myth just because I'm the only one who posted results, so I don't know what I'm talking about)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
I used a 36" X 9 X 3" with 2.5" in and out ends. I lost 2-3 lbs of boost and the powerdyne itself could not handle the intercooler. The powerdyne would heat up too much faster. I finally ditch the intercooler and tried methanol injection to cool the air. In the end, even after the 928 venting and shimming, I realized the powerdyne is only good for what it is advertized at 6 psi. Beyond that your going to start burning up bearings, having the internal belt heat up and break or slip off the input and output shafts. The powerdyne is good for what it is rated for 6 psi, after that, if you want more add nitrous or do what I should of done go with a turbo. Instead of putting $4500 into my powerdyne I could have had a turbo that I could adjusted my PSI to whatever I wanted too. I think that is why Shirl on the other board never upped her boost on the powerdyne and went with nitrous to get the more HP she needed.

It doesn't make sense to me why the supercharger would end up heating up faster by introducing an intercooler to the mix...unless the intercooler was restricting airflow (which it was given the loss of 2-3 psi). Given the low loss of pressure across a water to air intercooler, I intend on getting around this problem.

*(Any restriction or making the discharge pipe longer forces the powerdyne to work harder, its already running on the wrong side of the belt. Running a water to air is longer pipping and still a restriction. Also with adding the VS cam I lost 2 PSI. )

Given the fact that I am installing this on my 98 camaro, I have the angled throttle body, so I doubt (but I'll check to make sure) that I can have it mate so perfectly like that. I might have to push the intercooler closer to the front of the car. With the hood curving down to meet the bumper, how much more room in that photo could the intercooler have gone forward before smacking the hood? What size core is that?
*(Again Longer piping with restricting air flow = loss of PSI)


Originally Posted by ssms17607
Your going to lose PSI with the intercooler on there

I'm not doubting that. What you are either neglecting or misunderstanding is that a water to air intercooler provides less pressure drop than an air to air intercooler which means less restriction on the PowerDyne unit.

*(You don't understand that any restriction or longer piping is still going to cause a pressure drop even if it is a small cooler, again it is already running on the wrong side of the belt making the pulley heat up and the internals.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
I live in AZ and my AIT's were 220 degrees in the summer with the intercooler 160 or so

This statement alone tells me the intercooler worked significantly well at doing it's job by dropping your temps by 80 degrees AFTER the intercooler.

*( If you read the rest of it I could smell the internal belt cooking from the PD, ran it 2 weeks and the belt broke 1 week after I took the intercooler off. Too much stress from the intercooler weak'n the belt. Also lost 2-3 PSI running the intercooler and piping.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
I could smell the internal belt burning from the powerdyne. Took the intercooler off and the belt snapped about 2 weeks later. I could only run 10 degrees of timing sometimes, maybe 13 in winter. I had every upgrade from 928.

I'm beginning to read very bad things about the bearings that 928 has been putting out. Some guy on eBay has his damaged 928 impeller and bearings up for sale with a very large rant about how their bearings are not equipped to do the job that 928 claims they should do. That same guy and Carl from 928 are exchanging some pretty heated words on superchargersonline.com (have a look around their forums for the argument). Given their dialog and the fact that the other guy works with much faster turbines (helicopters) on a daily basis, I'm beginning to think he knows what he's talking about. About the best thing Carl can say in his defense of his bearings is that he's been in the business for 9 years. He hasn't put up any technical deal what-so-ever regarding the re-greasing of the KBC bearings he uses.
*(I looked up the bearings and gave out the part #'s and called Bearing Works to find out what RPM I could spin them to and it was 60,000 and their prepacked sealed bearings. Having every mod done to the PD and it still was blowing belts and slipping when it got hot losing PSI after it got warmed up. My car was probably faster N/A with running 28 degrees timing than running 8-10 of degrees timing with the PD since it robs HP trying to spin the PD. Which the dynoed showed every run it got hotter, it lost alot of HP and TQ. The main problem is the internal belt won't hold anything unless your in a cool climate then you would be fine.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
In the end the powerdyne cost me more than I should of put into it, thats why now I'm doing a turbo setup.

Now you, I, and everyone else all know that's not why we do this. By going with that point of view ($$$ to horsepower ratio), we should all be throwing LS series engines into our cars. I'm doing what I'm doing because I want to do it this way.

*(Thats what I said when I started and spent an extra $4500 on the unit, in doing so I could of had a turbo kit that was proven results and could of had the HP I was looking for all the time. PD wasn't made to run on the back side of the belt, a Procharger would be the best investment in supercharging. $$$ to HP ratio is going with a turbo, it will put out as much as a stock or bolt on LS motor will or more.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
The intercooler I used for the powerdyne is being used by a person running 10 PSI on a turbo kit so the intercooler was good.

I invite you to go and take a boost gauge and plumb it into the inlet of the intercooler and see what kind of pressure that person is making. I guarantee you it's higher than 10psi.

*(Its 2-3 PSI higher because of pipping and intercooler, but you can turn the boost up to make up for PSI drop with a turbo and can't with the PD, without blowing something up on it.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
Methanol injection I found would be the best way to cool the AIT's.

I used methanol on my last car. Works good, but I can't stand filling another thing up on my car.
*(If it is the only thing that works , why not go with a methanol kit, if it is setup right might have to fill it once a week)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
I changed about 10 belts on it and 2 sets of bearings on my powerdyne, gets old after awhile but I was running a 2.6" pulley which was about 8-11 PSI also with the VS cam.

You were spinning that supercharger at roughly 47,000 rpm then. That's probably what ultimately caused your belts to melt and your bearings to fail prematurely. Consider this, every time you spun your engine above 4800 rpm, you were going past that 38,000 rpm limit of the stock bearings. Not good...

*(If you read any of my other posts , I had ceramic bearings to spin it to 60,000 rpms, venting, shiming, and everything else , their racing rebuild with GT belts so I was still spinning under 60,000 rpms and still had trouble with the PD. Thats another reason I got rid of it.)

It also doesn't help that your restrictive air to air intercooler was allowing the temperature to build up as well before flowing through and cooling off.

*(How was my intercooler restrictive do you know what rating it was , its rated for 400 HP thats why it went on a turbo car that runs fine with it. It was mounted so air always hit it, so here you go again knowing nothing about my setup or the PD and saying you know how my setup was restrictive an allowing temp to build up, its funny I never saw anyone around when I tested it out.)

*(See it is alot easier to break down what someone says sentence by sentence and respond to it not knowing the whole truth about what is said , go ahead and waste your money and might as well throw a blower cam on there as well.)

[Emulsifide]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

What the hell? How is anything I said in that entire line of quoting you just did offensive in any way????

I don't know you other than the way you are acting now. I've never said anything offensive/negative about you or to you. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Forget the question. I'll just go ask the manufacturer.

[ssms5411]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

I responded down below:



iTrader: (0) Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticbird45
you might want to consider getting the 928 full racing rebuild now. Powerdyne's hate intercoolers and tend to have bearing failure a lot quicker on intercooled setups


And that's one of the myths I tend to dispell. I'm assuming you're referring to ssms17607's post:

*(How is it a myth just because I'm the only one who posted results, so I don't know what I'm talking about)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
I used a 36" X 9 X 3" with 2.5" in and out ends. I lost 2-3 lbs of boost and the powerdyne itself could not handle the intercooler. The powerdyne would heat up too much faster. I finally ditch the intercooler and tried methanol injection to cool the air. In the end, even after the 928 venting and shimming, I realized the powerdyne is only good for what it is advertized at 6 psi. Beyond that your going to start burning up bearings, having the internal belt heat up and break or slip off the input and output shafts. The powerdyne is good for what it is rated for 6 psi, after that, if you want more add nitrous or do what I should of done go with a turbo. Instead of putting $4500 into my powerdyne I could have had a turbo that I could adjusted my PSI to whatever I wanted too. I think that is why Shirl on the other board never upped her boost on the powerdyne and went with nitrous to get the more HP she needed.

It doesn't make sense to me why the supercharger would end up heating up faster by introducing an intercooler to the mix...unless the intercooler was restricting airflow (which it was given the loss of 2-3 psi). Given the low loss of pressure across a water to air intercooler, I intend on getting around this problem.

*(Any restriction or making the discharge pipe longer forces the powerdyne to work harder, its already running on the wrong side of the belt. Running a water to air is longer pipping and still a restriction. Also with adding the VS cam I lost 2 PSI. )

Given the fact that I am installing this on my 98 camaro, I have the angled throttle body, so I doubt (but I'll check to make sure) that I can have it mate so perfectly like that. I might have to push the intercooler closer to the front of the car. With the hood curving down to meet the bumper, how much more room in that photo could the intercooler have gone forward before smacking the hood? What size core is that?
*(Again Longer piping with restricting air flow = loss of PSI)


Originally Posted by ssms17607
Your going to lose PSI with the intercooler on there

I'm not doubting that. What you are either neglecting or misunderstanding is that a water to air intercooler provides less pressure drop than an air to air intercooler which means less restriction on the PowerDyne unit.

*(You don't understand that any restriction or longer piping is still going to cause a pressure drop even if it is a small cooler, again it is already running on the wrong side of the belt making the pulley heat up and the internals.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
I live in AZ and my AIT's were 220 degrees in the summer with the intercooler 160 or so

This statement alone tells me the intercooler worked significantly well at doing it's job by dropping your temps by 80 degrees AFTER the intercooler.

*( If you read the rest of it I could smell the internal belt cooking from the PD, ran it 2 weeks and the belt broke 1 week after I took the intercooler off. Too much stress from the intercooler weak'n the belt. Also lost 2-3 PSI running the intercooler and piping.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
I could smell the internal belt burning from the powerdyne. Took the intercooler off and the belt snapped about 2 weeks later. I could only run 10 degrees of timing sometimes, maybe 13 in winter. I had every upgrade from 928.

I'm beginning to read very bad things about the bearings that 928 has been putting out. Some guy on eBay has his damaged 928 impeller and bearings up for sale with a very large rant about how their bearings are not equipped to do the job that 928 claims they should do. That same guy and Carl from 928 are exchanging some pretty heated words on superchargersonline.com (have a look around their forums for the argument). Given their dialog and the fact that the other guy works with much faster turbines (helicopters) on a daily basis, I'm beginning to think he knows what he's talking about. About the best thing Carl can say in his defense of his bearings is that he's been in the business for 9 years. He hasn't put up any technical deal what-so-ever regarding the re-greasing of the KBC bearings he uses.
*(I looked up the bearings and gave out the part #'s and called Bearing Works to find out what RPM I could spin them to and it was 60,000 and their prepacked sealed bearings. Having every mod done to the PD and it still was blowing belts and slipping when it got hot losing PSI after it got warmed up. My car was probably faster N/A with running 28 degrees timing than running 8-10 of degrees timing with the PD since it robs HP trying to spin the PD. Which the dynoed showed every run it got hotter, it lost alot of HP and TQ. The main problem is the internal belt won't hold anything unless your in a cool climate then you would be fine.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
In the end the powerdyne cost me more than I should of put into it, thats why now I'm doing a turbo setup.

Now you, I, and everyone else all know that's not why we do this. By going with that point of view ($$$ to horsepower ratio), we should all be throwing LS series engines into our cars. I'm doing what I'm doing because I want to do it this way.

*(Thats what I said when I started and spent an extra $4500 on the unit, in doing so I could of had a turbo kit that was proven results and could of had the HP I was looking for all the time. PD wasn't made to run on the back side of the belt, a Procharger would be the best investment in supercharging. $$$ to HP ratio is going with a turbo, it will put out as much as a stock or bolt on LS motor will or more.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
The intercooler I used for the powerdyne is being used by a person running 10 PSI on a turbo kit so the intercooler was good.

I invite you to go and take a boost gauge and plumb it into the inlet of the intercooler and see what kind of pressure that person is making. I guarantee you it's higher than 10psi.

*(Its 2-3 PSI higher because of pipping and intercooler, but you can turn the boost up to make up for PSI drop with a turbo and can't with the PD, without blowing something up on it.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
Methanol injection I found would be the best way to cool the AIT's.

I used methanol on my last car. Works good, but I can't stand filling another thing up on my car.
*(If it is the only thing that works , why not go with a methanol kit, if it is setup right might have to fill it once a week)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssms17607
I changed about 10 belts on it and 2 sets of bearings on my powerdyne, gets old after awhile but I was running a 2.6" pulley which was about 8-11 PSI also with the VS cam.

You were spinning that supercharger at roughly 47,000 rpm then. That's probably what ultimately caused your belts to melt and your bearings to fail prematurely. Consider this, every time you spun your engine above 4800 rpm, you were going past that 38,000 rpm limit of the stock bearings. Not good...

*(If you read any of my other posts , I had ceramic bearings to spin it to 60,000 rpms, venting, shiming, and everything else , their racing rebuild with GT belts so I was still spinning under 60,000 rpms and still had trouble with the PD. Thats another reason I got rid of it.)

It also doesn't help that your restrictive air to air intercooler was allowing the temperature to build up as well before flowing through and cooling off.

*(How was my intercooler restrictive do you know what rating it was , its rated for 400 HP thats why it went on a turbo car that runs fine with it. It was mounted so air always hit it, so here you go again knowing nothing about my setup or the PD and saying you know how my setup was restrictive an allowing temp to build up, its funny I never saw anyone around when I tested it out.)

*(See it is alot easier to break down what someone says sentence by sentence and respond to it not knowing the whole truth about what is said , go ahead and waste your money and might as well throw a blower cam on there as well.)
__________________
96' Camaro M5 to A4 conversion, alot of mods ,see Homepage. GT35R Turbo Project in the works!http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2441235

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Last edited by ssms5411; Today at 06:34 PM.

[Emulsifide]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

LOL!!! You're thread jacking yourself!

I asked you a non-hostile question about your intercooler. Nothing more. Nothing less.

If you want to continue the conversation about my setup, you have every right to do so in my thread on FTV6.com.

[ssms5411]

Re: Mounting Big @SS intercooler= PAIN

LOL, You thread jacked my thread here, and were quoting me in your thread over there and picking apart what I said to justify why you think your idea will work better and my setup was all wrong and you know everything about the PD and how it reacts with restriction and pulley sizes( you don't).LOL You'll be at 6 PSI and snaping belts in no time. Why would I go back to FTV6 , or the real question why would you follow me over here Firebirdv6.com to ask me about a intercooler that has nothing to do with you and your PD setup. Theres enough turbo people over there to ask about intercoolers. There so called expert moderators.LOL CV6.COM FTW