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  • Misfire Postmortem

    Hi, everyone, this isn't a current issue for me, but something that's been bothering me because I can't figure it out.

    Short version - can changing a single coil cause temporary misfire on all cylinders that clears after driving for a while?

    Long version-
    I battled misfires with my 97 Firebird last summer that resulted in a plug/wire change. That improved things, but it still felt like it was a little off. I watched it on my LS1M and noticed that it was still misfiring a little, not bad enough to throw a code, with most of the misses on the same coil. So I grabbed a cheap coil at Autozone to swap in to see if that changed things. It did, they were worse. This time it was misfiring at random intervals on all cylinders - again, no codes, just sounding really bad and running rough. This was the first time I'd ever done a coil change, so I thought maybe I'd screwed something up, and took it to the mechanic I was using. He called me the next day and told me to come get the car, there was nothing wrong with it.

    I slapped the scanner back on it when I picked it up, and sure enough, there were a few misfires, then as I drove it a few more miles, none. I watched it for a few more days, but it stayed clear.

    I DID notice that after I changed the coil and hooked the battery back up and took the car for the first test run, it was missing like crazy. I spooked and drove it straight home before I got too far down the street. When I started it the next morning and drove it to the shop, they were fewer and fewer, and I guess by the time my mechanic took a look, the number of misses was negligible.

    So basically - misfires on two cylinders, changed the coil for those two cylinders, misfires EVERYWHERE for about 5-10 miles, then running clean. Is this common? Could there something else wrong that's laying in wait? I had thought that maybe I'd knocked something loose when I was wrestling with that back coil, but my after underhood matched up with the before pictures I usually take before I take anything apart (heh). I don't drive much anymore, but the car's not given me any more firing type problems (yet) since that little adventure.

    Sorry so convoluted, but this has really bothered me and no one I've talked to has any ideas what might have happened, and I definitely don't since I only have a vague idea of what I'm doing when I approach the cars with hand tools and beer. I think my Monte Carlo is ready for new coils, but I'm not ready to start swapping those out until I've figured out what might have happened here.

  • #2
    Re: Misfire Postmortem

    Well that is a new one for me
    i jus put new msd coils on mine 3 days ago and havent had that problem
    sounds like may b a computer glitch or coil breakin in??
    Maybe a vaccum hose is also to blame

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    • #3
      Re: Misfire Postmortem

      You may have needed to do a case re learn.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: Misfire Postmortem

        Ok dont want to sound like a retard
        wats a case relearn?

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        • #5
          Re: Misfire Postmortem

          Post #7 from this thread on LS1tech

          http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...3HKCfe32Z8iHpw

          When you perform a CASE (Crank Angle Sensor Error) learn the PCM records the *exact* relationship between the crank teeth and the crank angle sensor - for the current crank/sensor configuration.
          It uses that information to detect the small acceleration of the crankshaft at the instant of each firing event. If a firing event does not occur the PCM will not detect the small crank acceleration and will log a misfire.
          Note: large cams, rough roads and rough idle can cause false misfire detection.

          When the PCM "learns" the crank position sensor error, it writes the learned information to non-volatile memory.
          In a new PCM, that memory is blank and it will throw a code immediately indicating that a crank relearn is required.

          If you swap your PCM for a PCM that is not new, i.e. one that has already had a relearn done - probably for a different engine, then the PCM does not "know" that the learned information is incorrect for the current engine. Hence it will not log a code to indicate that a relearn is needed.

          If you change any part of your engine that effects the relative positioning of the crank to the crank sensor then the learned information will probably no longer be correct. And still the PCM will not know that a relearn is needed.

          If the learned information is not correct, the PCM may not be able to detect valid misfires and/or may detect false misfires. P0300 codes
          sigpic

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          • #6
            Re: Misfire Postmortem

            interesting...thanks, y'all! I did an unplugged hose in recent history (for emissions, I think, I haven't pinned it down yet) that smoothed my idle out, but that was either a good bit of drive time before or after I did the coil swap. Maybe it was relearning..I wondered that, but I never saw anyone else mention anything like that in posts that I could remember.

            just to boost camarov6.com in general, thanks thanks thanks all around. Over the past few years I've learned a lot playing with this car off and on, and I can lay most of it at the feet of this board and the awesome archives. :rock:

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